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L&R Lock Company Experience

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Wehrmacht

40 Cal.
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Recently had a Gillespie Rifle made,and we used an L&R flintlock since it most nearly matched the original rifle that we copied. Experienced a problem with the fly not doing it's job after first eight rounds fired,so I sent the lock back to L&R and awaited to see what would happen.

The good folks at L&R accepted what I told them without question,repaired that sucker immediately and had it back to me within three days! Darn good people to do business with :hatsoff:.Of my nine flintlocks,three have L&R locks...I'm sure there will be more!
 
Unfortunately that story is too often repeated with L&R locks. I had exactly the same experience with my Jaeger,additionally the frizzen spring broke a week after the fly was "fixed." The story with the frizzen spring revolved around "bad parts." I dunno what to say---I have several L&R locks without issues. :confused:
 
My recently completed SxS wouldn't kick over her frizzens. One frizzen spring was weaker. So I called them and they returned the locks right away with a new frizzen spring in the one lock. It lasted about 6-8 times and then broke the frizzen spring. That was nearly a month ago. They have not returned the telephone call yet. This is my 3rd. L&R and all of the locks are a learning experience on how to make them work. The one Chambers lock I have I know nothing about it,except it works and works good everytime. I wish Chambers made other locks for some of the other styles. Then I would know I wouldn't have a problem making a gun go off. Suppose L&R lost my phone number?
 
Hello all,
My father in law has built 25-30 flintlock rifles in which he used L&R locks. He is exceptionally gifted at finely tuning a lock. I shoot these guns regularly (probably more than he does) and I have never experienced any sort of malfunction or defective parts. I must admit however that I am currently trying to fix a problem with a buddy's L&R lock. I also keep a spare mainspring in my bag during hunting season because stuff happens.
Charcloth.
 
First off, let me say I own several L&R locks and they all work very well. No broken parts, good frizzen sparks and appear to be well made.

Over the years on this forum, I have seen several posts about poor parts and bad workmanship. Of course, I have not seen these locks so I'm taking the Posters' word for the conditions they were describing.
These negative posts seemed to deal with locks made between 2001-2003. Hopefully L&R got their stuff together and are back to making the quality locks I used in the guns built in the '90s. It appears they have as this is the first post I've seen in a long time dealing with L&R problems.
 
They are good people to resolve issues, even those of the "operator malfunction" Varity. :(
 
Zonie, I bought these locks directly from L&R themselves. Actually I talked to Bill Cox when I ordered them in August of this year. My other misbehaving lock was made in 2001.
 
I had a user induced problem and Bill fixed me up at a very reasonable price. I have had no problems with my L&R lock. I visited him at his old and new shops. Interesting and enjoyable people making good ML products from what I have seen.

CS
 
Are they the folks who make the RPL locks for T/C and Lyman rifles? What's the experience with those?

Thanks
 
Roger on those dates Zonie---that's exactlly the period of time I had my problems with L&R locks. The trouble is most us (including me) have never pulled a lock apart and then returned it to working condition. I suppose if I had more guts I would try it---I was thinking of buying a lock from TOTW and trying my hand at it. I can take my 1911 A1 style .45 Calibre target pistols apart down to the last screw and put 'em together again so they work---I can adjust the springs for trigger pull etc.---so it's a matter of learning how. Mebbe would be worth the effort to learn only I have to get a back up (shooter) to help me out of a "I can't get this #$%^ lock back together again----help". :rotf:
 
Just buy yourself a Track of the Wolf catalog and examine it for a few minutes. True size pictures right there. It is not all that rough. There are a few sequence issues, but you will get them quickly or you could ask here.

CS
 
Disassembly and reassembly of a sidelock isn't that hard.
I would strongly recommend that a mainspring vise be bought and used.

Also, be sure to have screw drivers that actually fit the screw slots. "Close" won't do.

My method of dissassembling a lock goes something like this:
1. Remove the lock from the stock.

2. Bring the hammer/cock to the full cocked position.

3. Place the mainspring vise on the mainspring and tighten the screw only enough to secure it firmly in place. (Do not try to compress the spring).

4. Push upward on the sear arm and lower the hammer/cock to the fired positon.

5. Carefully examine the mainspring to see if any screws are attaching it to the lock plate. If there is, remove the screw. If there is not, gently rotate the spring/vise clockwise to disengage the springs upper tang from the bolster.
Using gentle rotation, the spring should be pulled off of the lockplate. Put it in a safe place where it won't fall to the floor.
NOTE: If the lock is of the newer lock design (like some L&R locks) there is a small link which connects the mainspring to the tumbler. Use a piece of paper and draw which way the S bend in this link is going relative to the lock. This must be put back exactly as it is. If it is reversed, it will bind up and possibly break.
On my L&R Bedford, starting from the lower crosspin, it goes up and forward somewhat like a S, not a backward S.

6. Loosen the screw holding the sear spring in place at least 3 turns.

7. Using some needle nose pliers or a knife, disengage the sear spring tab from the sideplate by pulling it outward. When the tab has cleared the slot, rotate the spring counterclockwise away from the sear.

8. Remove the sear screw and the sear.

9. (for bridled locks) (The bridle is the part that fits over the tumbler. It has a hole in it for the axel on the inner side of the tumbler.) Find the location of the fly in the tumbler and keep an eye on it. It is easily lost.

10. Remove the bridle screws. Pay special attention to the shape of the fly and which direction it is installed.
With Silar locks it has a cast pin sticking out of the side of it so you can't put it together backwards. With the L&R locks the fly is a small irregularly shaped plate on a pin. It must be reassembled in exactly the same position that you find it. If it is assembled backwards it will not work correctly. (Draw a picture of it in the tumbler).
11. Remove the hammer/cock screw.

12. Support the lockplate on two blocks (or on the top of a vise with the jaws open about 3/4 inch). Do not be tempted to pry the hammer off of the tumbler with screw drivers or anything like that. Not only will you gouge the lockplate but there is a good chanch that you will break the very hard tumbler.

13. If you have a square punch that will fit inside the square hole in the hammer use it for removing the hammer/cock. If you don't, find a steel rod that will fit down inside the threads minor diameter and bottom out in the drilled hole.
This pin should not be dead soft like a nail and it should not be very hard like a drill bit. The soft steel can deform in the bottom of the hole and become locked in place by the threads. The very hard pin can shatter from hitting it).
Using a small hammer, tap the punch or pin down so it drives the tumbler out of the hammers square drive.

14. For a Flintlock frizzen, lightly compress the spring and remove the screw holding it in place.
This is one place that locking pliers will work. Use a piece of brass sheet metal to prevent the serrated teeth on the pliers from marring the spring. Lightly compress the spring so the frizzen is free to rotate a little.
NOTE: do not compress the spring any more than you have to to release the pressure on the frizzen. If you over compress it, you may break it.

15. With the frizzen spring removed, remove the screw securing the frizzen.
Do not try to remove the wheel if there is one on the spring or frizzen.

Re-assembly should be done in the reverse order.

You may lightly tap the hammer back onto the frizzen drive, but if you can get at least three threads of the hammer screw engaged, IMO it is best to just tighten the screw to seat out the hammer on the square drives shoulders.

When you replace the sear spring, (if you removed it from the lock plate) after the sear is in place, screw the spring back on the lockplate but do not tighten the screw.
Use your thumb to push the back of the spring downward and towards the lockplate. It will bend and the tab will engage the plate's slot almost automatically. Then tighten the screw.

Don't forget the fly when you reinstall the tumblers bridle.
If you are working on a late design lock with a mainspring link, double check your sketch to make sure it is installed correctly.

The bridle (and frizzen) screw that goes thru the sear needs to be snug but not overly tightened. If you overtighten it, the sear will not rotate freely like it needs to do to do it's job.

To remove the mainspring vise, bring the lock to the full cock position, loosen the thumbscrew and remove the vise.

IMO: You can do this job without a mainspring vise but you risk breaking the mainspring with things like locking pliers.
.Locking pliers concentrate their load all in one place rather than spreading it out like the vise does. On locks like the Davis Jeager and French fusil locks it is almost sure to break the spring (don't ask how I know).
 
Actually, a Crescent wrench (Adjustable spanner for our friends in other countries) works as a field expedient mainspring vise on many springs.

CS
 
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