Knife Suggestions

[Jim Blair]

The Musso Bowie excites so much controversy and partisanship it has degenerated into shouting matches which contributes little to the discussion but a lot of ego building for those involved in the shouting.It's as controversial as Bowie himself.There are many knives with applied brass backs but to answer crocketts question concerning pre-1840s as it applies to I assume knives made here or made for the American market during the period of Bowies notoriety I see no proof of that in all those pictures with the possible exception of the Schively-Kane knife.

The Schively-Kane knife has a decent provenance and a traceable history.The Musso Bowie not so much so.I have a copy of the Martin's Auction Bowie Knife Auction in 2006 somewhere,if I can find it I'll look and see if any brass backed bowie's are listed.As for Flayderman's book,like his catalogs of years ago sometimes you read the descriptions and scratch your head about the veracity of the information.......but it does have copious pictures of old knives and paraphernalia and there just aren't a whole lot of new books on knives out there.

 

[crockett]

I'm glad I asked the question. So brass backed Bowies might not be pre-1840 (we don't know) but they existed in Scotland on some dirks and in America we can figure that at least some were around by the time of the Civil War. How were they put on a knife? I've never seen one. Were they sheet metal folded over and soldered in place? Am I correct in the idea that the purpose was for the soft brass to grab the edge of an oponent's knife.
And...I'll admit I need to read more. The Musso Bowie has been talked about a lot. What exactly was it? Who owned it? When was it made?

 

[LRB]

If not a very clever fake, it could be pre-Alamo. It has the initials JB on the guard. J Black?, or J Bowie? Maybe Joe Blow. Little can be proved about it. It is a fantastic knife, and much easier to weild than most would think. The blade is 13 3/4"x2 1/2" at its widest. It starts out just shy of 1/4" in thickness, tapering to 3/16". Strangely, it starts as hollow ground blending into convex a few inches from the guard. The blade is very well made and finished. The brass back is a formed channel, of 1/32" sheet, and soldered to the spine. The original butt plate is missing. Weight is a mere 1lb 12oz. Here are shots of it, and my copy. My copy was made to the blueprint that Joe Musso drew of it.

 

[LRB]

Crockett. Notice that the grip is slightly off set for an edge up grip. This feature also shows up on the Carrigan style Bowie #1, made by James Black. Interesting, no? Another more compelling piece of evidence, is that traces of bauxite were found in the brass cast guard by a lab test. There is a bauxite deposit very near Blacks forge, in sand that would have been usable for sand casting.

 

[scott taylor]

Jay-my interest in a descent knife has increased lately and I recently ordered an English trade/scalper 6" from Old Dominion Forge looks like it may be OK. Wick's knives look good too also have a craving for a spanish belduque from De La Ronde forge. Since I am from Texas the subject of "Bowie Knives" is over discussed and cliche and if it was all that great the Mexicans would not have killed him anyway.
I know I have probaly been of little help but thse 3 oufits are worth a look.

 

[Rifleman1776]

That is what I believe a/the Bowie should look like.
I'm drooling.
Not a bad effort for a non-Arkansan. :wink: :thumbsup:

 

[crockett]

Thanks Wick- I always wondered about that knife.

 

[crockett]

Wick- that photo of the glass display case with all the knives...where is it?

 

[LRB]

Musso collection

 

[Ron LaClair]

also have a craving for a spanish belduque from De La Ronde forge.

I picked this one up from De La Ronde two years ago at the Living History show in Kalamazoo. I sent it off to Chuck Burrows to have a sheath made for it.

 

[Jim Blair]

[/quote]

LOL The scribe in that picture looks like those old engravings of William Shakespeare the Bard.It's also the only picture I've ever seen,no doubt there are many I haven't,in which Sam Houston has a full beard.

 

[scott taylor]

It does appear in that picture that old Sam was a poor housekeeper and had a varmint problem...

 

[Claude Mathis]

There is a 7" "Old Hickory" carving knife that can be converted into a scalper pretty cheaply. The "Old Hickory" knives have hash marks you have to grind (slow/cold) off. Put on a new handle with pins. Make a half tang if you wish.

I've altered about a dozen Old Hickory knives over the years. The blades have gotten much thinner over the years so grinding off the marks makes them very thin. If you can find the old ones they're much better.

They're carbon steel, they rust and if you sharpen them correctly, you can shave with them. Good for cutting patches too.

 

[Jim Blair]

+1 Yard sales and flea markets often turn up used/usable butcher knives for very little money.If you have a sharp eye and have some knowledge of trademarks sometimes you can turn up some treasures.A Russell,LFC,or an I.Wilson.

 

[LaBonte]

A less problematic solution is to use Green River Blades rather than the Old Hickory - no hash marks to grind off and they now offer a 7" Long hunter blade that is similar to a period scalper type albeit with a full tang. Other style blades can also be used and reground. The elector etched markings are new ones are easily removed.
Just one source: http://www.crazycrow.com/green-river-knife-blades

 

[crockett]

The Old Hickory blades I used were old and I chopped about 2" off the end to make a shorter knife and then ground off the hash marks and then cut into a half tang, and then drilled new holes for pins, then used Radio Shack ferric acid to put a maltese cross and F on the blade. Rosewood diamond type handle. The Green River "scalper" blade- sure saves A LOT of work. Even though the company wasn't supplying knives (although some guy had a 1839 order) the blades are etched very lightly and the etching easily removed. The Green River knives- I have an assortment of them and I like the steel. Good knife for the money.

 

[Rod Lassey]

Pictures please!!!!

Also, I've never tried putting a maker's mark on with acid---could you please explain? Make it simple so I can understand it!

Rod

 

[James Stella]

That is a neet project. Very nice work.

 

[crockett]

RodL- you need a mild acid. Radio Shack sells ferric acid which is used to etch circuit boards. You also need a "resist". I use beeswax. You melt the beeswax( be careful- it ignites at 140 degrees) and paint the beeswax on the blade. Next you need a stylus ( a dull but pointed instrument like a pencil- but made of metal)To create the mark you scrap off the beeswax in the desired shape= say a Maltese Cross. Next you use a dropper and put a drop of the ferric acid in the scrapped off area. The longer you leave the acid there the deeper it cuts however if you leave it on a long time and it cuts deeper the edge of the pattern starts to become less sharp.
When I did it I figured that scrapping away a perfect Maltese Cross would be difficult so I cut out a paper cross and glued that in place with Elmer's (not water proof) and then coated with the beeswax and then CAREFULLY used an exacto knife to trace the edge of the paper to cut through the beeswax and then CAREFULLY took out the paper cross. The trouble with this is if you aren't careful and just yank off the paper it will pull the beeswax with it.
I think you are supposed to leave the acid on about 20 minutes. That gives you a light etch. I wanted it to look more like it was stamped so I left the acid on a couple of hours. It cut deep enough to look like a stamp but it wasn't crisp on the edges. Fortunately this wasn't too bad a problem because I wanted to antique (pit) the blade anyway to make it look old so the lack of a crisp line on the stamp was okay.
I'd get some mild steel bar and first practice on that a while before doing a good blade.
Some of the knife making supply houses sell etching machines. To be honest, I don't know too much about them but as I understand it you have small pieces of paper with what ever design you like and that goes on the blade and then you heat the blade? or something like that to transfer the pattern to the steel. Theoretically, I think you could copy a G-CROWN-R type fur trade mark and etch that, the machines cost about $150 so it would only be doable if you were going to do a fair amount of blades and it would be an etch rather than a stamp. Some places will make stamps beginning about $80 so a G-Crown-R stamp might be able to be made for the same price as the etch machine and the stamp would be more pc.
On the etch, I've heard that other resists can be used, I think even a magic marker. A dark resist would make your scraping with a stylus show up better. I think other mild acids besides the ferric could also be used.

 

[LaBonte]

I do it pretty much the same as Crockett only for a resist I use a colored lacquer (fingernail polish is one type) and for acid I use sulphuric - battery acid available at any auto parts store...Sulphuric is the most common acid used for etching steel by the pros.

If you do the acid in short times (no more than 5 minutes) and repeat after rinsing well with water between each time then the edges don't get as "fuzzy"