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Knife Suggestions

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James Stella

40 Cal.
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Does anyone have suggestions for a H/C Pre 1850 knife that they like? If so could you tell me the make and where I might find one. Any pictures would be appreciated.

I am looking to use it as a skinning/general purpose camp knife.

Thank You
 
Hi, Jay.
That's a very broad timeframe. What type of knife are you looking at? An 18th century commercially-made butcher or folding knife will be different than a 19th century locally-made butcher knife. And those will look much different from the Bowie knife knock-offs or other commercially-made butchers which were imported in the 19th century. Same goes for pen knives, table knives, etc.

In my opinion, there is no one-size-fits all for "pre-1850" knives. If you're only after a general "old-timey" type knife and not after a good historical reproduction, then your options are endless. Otherwise, folks who reproduce close copies of original blades are much more limited in number.
 
Ok good questions. I am not looking for a folder.

Other than that I am not too sure. I guess they used alot of butcher knives back then as general purpose knives.

The knife I use now is a puma skinner. I guess I am looking for something close to that but more HC with the time frame of the "plains rifle". I carry a lyman great plains rifle and would like something that would "match" the rifle.
 
If your looking for a folder, you might want to check out JAS Townsend and sons, they have a fair sized inventory of various pc/hc folders.
 
If you can find a copy or get it through your local library there is no better reference work on the period you are interested in than James Gordon's Great Knife Makers for the Early west.Profusely illustrated with pictures of original knives and period literature.By that period most people were carrying factory made knives.Dexter-Russell still offers some of them.The biggest difference you'll find between old and new is the methods of attachment of the handles.Period knives are generally pinned with steel pins,current offerings usually have brass rivets or pins.Here are some authentic offerings from a UK site of some of the types commonly in use back then for sheath knives.

http://sheffieldknives.co.uk/acatalog/Miscellaneous-Knives---Scrapers.html

Many surviving photos of the period show Bowie knives,BIG bowie knives,in studio portraits.

Pocket knives from the steamboat Arabia sunk in 1856 on the way up the Missouri-
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.co...id=2355346f6f6d2a87afd6ed0f41fbd25d&mode=view
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It has been well documented that butcher knives and scalpers were by far the most common knives used throughout the North American Continent, but longer knives were also found in a variety of forms across the American Expanse as well. The Spanish Trade Knife is just one example. Patterned after an original found in Chadron, Nebraska’s esteemed Museum of the Fur Trade, this knife has black buffalo horn handle slabs held in place with three steel rivets, and the handle ends in the rudimentary bird’s beak form often found on knives of the southwest. This knife is 12 ½” in length overall with an 8” blade and is forged from 1095 carbon steel. Like most knives of the period from 1750-1850, it is thin, measuring no more than 1/8” in thickness across the spine. Thin blades have two distinct advantages; they are lighter in weight, and they can be honed to a razor’s edge.

centerseam.JPG
 
Most of the known examples of the knives of that pattern that have been found or excavated came from Texas and New Mexico.It seems not a lot is known of them or how wide there usage was outside of Spanish speaking areas although they were a common type in those areas.They are IMHO a much more functional multi-use knife than a bowie type or a scalper and the butcher knives many carried.
 
They are IMHO a much more functional multi-use knife than a bowie type or a scalper and the butcher knives many carried.

There was a time I would have been skeptical of that opinion, but since I've been carrying and using mine I totally agree with you... :thumbsup:

Spanish%20Trade%20Knife.JPG


Spanish.JPG
 
Not very accurate, but they seem to be good knives at a good price. Many of them are seen at rendezvous', and most owners like them.
 
This is a question is have been recently dealing with doing the 1830's in Texas.

Some considerations from what I have been able to gather.

The Sheffield England steel industry was able to out-compete most domestic makers in sheer volume such that the most common knifes in these decades were of English make.

The Green River knives were an exception but Green River knife production didn't really take off until the 1840's, AFTER the "pre-1840" thing.

The early decades of the Ninettenth Century were the "big knife" decades, where for most Americans other Americans were the major threat rather than Indians. In this pre-repeating handgun era the big knife became the primary defensive sidearm.

Famous example: the brawls of Jim Bowie, including the sandbar fight that made his reputation (1827??).

Bowie was using essentially a big, domestically produced butcher knife, probably about like this 1830's example....

Bowie2_zps5f346571.jpg


By the early 1830's Sheffield began flooding the American market with "Bowie Knives", at that time synonymous with "Arkansas Toothpicks" and "Texas Knives".

The Bowie fad REALLY took off after Bowie's heroic end at the Alamo, Brit makers stepping up to meet the demand. At that time most ANY big, fancy knife could be called a "Bowie".

Ironically, it may have been Sheffield that drove the popularity of the classic clip-point "Bowie" design, those being identical or nearly so to what they were selling in Central and South America under other names.


Safest bet for any era? Prob'ly just a regular trade knife looking blade, 5" - 8" long.

JMHO,
Birdwatcher
 
Go on ebay and do a search on Jeff White knife. He mske a few that I think will work for you. Good luck
 
Jay54- you have gotten good information. There are some misconceptions I had when I got started so I thought maybe I'd share some. I thought a knife was a weapon that was carried as a back up after you fired your single shot rifle. If you were a mountain man you usually carried a pair of pistols as back up and you traveled with several other men and took turns shooting so someone always had a loaded gun. If you ran out of ammo you "ran fer life" and hid under a rock, beaver house, any place you could find- you didn't fight it out with a multitude of hostile Indians. Regarding hostile Indians, in the 1870's there were "wars" but in the earlier days the dealings with hostiles was more akin to a bunch of pirates at sea. The pirates want your stuff but they aren't going to make a suicide charge to get it, they'll track you from afar and wait for the right time- that's why just a few mountain men could hold off a large number of Indians.
The knife carried by a mountain man was for skinning beaver pelts, buffalo robes, and dressing game to eat. Accordingly a thin bladed "butcher" knife was the best. They came in two styles, the regular butcher knife shape and a "scalping" knife that looks like a French Chef's knife.
The big heavy Bowie Knives were used as weapons for knife fights but it seems these were more often carried around the fringes of the Frontier- where you might be in a bar and get in an argument with some other guy. One exception is the double edge dagger/dirk/toothpick. These knives were lighter in weight and a few mountain men carried them. The butcher knives were often stuck under a belt, at a diagonal angle,across the small of the back but the fighting knives were usually worn cross draw style- that is a right handed man would wear the knife on his left side, towards the front.
 
Thank you for the info. I like the thin bladed trade knife. It is going to be used for skinning, so that will work good. The butcher knives, I am sure, would work well too, but do not look quite as nice.
 
Most folks like that rakish point on a scalper. For a sheath take a piece of leather and fold it in half and secure the edge with a single row of 3/8" brass tacks (about 10-14 tacks) and put a rawhide or sinew string thorugh the edge to tie sheath to belt. Tuck sheath under belt- all the string does is to keep it from slipping out under the belt. The sheath should cover about 2/3rds of the handle.
 
Check out ...Idaho knife Works...Mike Mann can make you anything you want. I have a Nesmuk knife from him and a cliff knife...excellent workmanship .
 
There is a 7" "Old Hickory" carving knife that can be converted into a scalper pretty cheaply. The "Old Hickory" knives have hash marks you have to grind (slow/cold) off. Put on a new handle with pins. Make a half tang if you wish.
 

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