Keeping Muzzleloading Alive

Muzzleloading Forum

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Sean E Bug

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Muzzleloading can provide the exact opposite to young people that the world does. Fun, individuality, self-reliance, patience, and community. it can provide connection and tactile experience to those lost in the digital sea. I wonder if we are serious about getting more involved in muzzleloading if a focus should be put on women. Women and girls tend to be better at having welcoming communities and young men are always interested in women. I bet if we put a focus to expose and encourage women in this hobby that men would fallow. For those with connections to scouting do you think it would be worthwhile to get in touch with the girl Scouts?
 

dave951

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Muzzleloading can provide the exact opposite to young people that the world does. Fun, individuality, self-reliance, patience, and community. it can provide connection and tactile experience to those lost in the digital sea. I wonder if we are serious about getting more involved in muzzleloading if a focus should be put on women. Women and girls tend to be better at having welcoming communities and young men are always interested in women. I bet if we put a focus to expose and encourage women in this hobby that men would fallow. For those with connections to scouting do you think it would be worthwhile to get in touch with the girl Scouts?
Good question. The thing that I've seen working in summer camp is since Scouting was opened to girls, we've seen all girl troops on the range. My admittedly limited experience in that regard is some in the all girl troop will really dig it. Others not so much. All I can say is check into it and let us know how it goes.
 

Dutch7

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If there is a rendezvous or black powder shoot in the area it needs to be well advertised. Hell unless a person is really into it already it's usually very hard for a new person to find out there are like minded people out there. It's to get new blood without a transfusion.
That is a very good point, we have state and national organizations that are likely unknown to many people that might have an interest in participating. We should announce our local shoots at various other local functions (scouts, 4-H, Lions, Masons etc) to encourage others to check it out.
 
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That is a very good point, we have state and national organizations that are likely unknown to many people that might have an interest in participating. We should announce our local shoots at various other local functions (scouts, 4-H, Lions, Masons etc) to encourage others to check it out.
Our local ML Club has 4-H Classes at their Spring and Fall shoots, but until I got involved in the club, I knew nothing about them. Now that I know, I can start trying to get kids prepared and out there shooting. Great point being made on promotion.
 

TFoley

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We have a club guest day every month - alternating Saturdays and Sundays. I average nine year, given that in an ordinary year we are OOC for at least three of them. However, with covid cutting down our opportunities to travel back home to Canada or to Oregon, the last two years, when not in lock-down, have seen me at every guest day. I ALWAYS take one or two muzzleloaders and a couple of other guns that use BP, but are not muzzleloaders, just so that folks can see and feel the commotion that accompanies BP shooting, and maybe get dirty and smelly along with that.

Those exposed to my BP guns have usually not only never handled, let alone fired any kind of a real gun before, but may have never thought about what came before cartridges, and to say it's an eye-opener is an understatement.

A couple have asked me about getting started with shooting BP, and I advise them that here in UK, with so many restrictions, it's best to get full membership of a gun club first, which is, in any case compulsory if you want own and shoot a rifled firearm. There is no easy way, except maybe by getting a shotgun certificate - that entails far less stringent conditions, provided that you have somewhere to shoot, like Britsmoothy does. Live in a town or city? Hmmmmmm, that's a tricky one - okay for a modern arm, with lots of clay pigeon clubs around, but for somebody who wants to shoot a flintlock or percussion smoothy, as hard as it can be. Living in the country makes it a lot easier - many people have a shotgun of some kind, so having a flinter or percussion gun should be no no big deal, except they don't usually do it. Only 'odd people' like Britsmoothy, bless 'im, do, and they are very few and far between. Some here have often asked about deer-hunting with BP firearms. It just doesn't happen, mainly because of the combination of velocity and muzzle energy figures that are deemed necessary to ensure a human kill. I KNOW, and you KNOW, that a well-placed .45cal ball will drop a deer in its paw-prints, but here in Western Europe, apart from one specialist reserved area in Hungary, all that seem to have been forgotten.

With no Scouting organisation here that supports shooting, and no other youth shooting opportunities, we are a bit stuck to go fanfaring to the youth of today, and let's be honest, here in UK the youngsters who go to game fairs and the like are far different to those who live in towns or cities. With shooting parent or parents, they are already 75% of the way to 'our' kind of shooting.

Else you can just about forget it.
 
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SPQR70AD

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Which generation is at fault for that?
the boomers are the reason young people cant buy anything related to shooting anything. you can barely get bullet molds. you cant count the number of young guys that just gave up trying to get started because of selfish gluttonous insatiable boomers buying everything at 70-80 years old
 

cannonball1

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I am the age you are referring too. I don't do it, but I have friends that are ammunition hoarders that will never use what they have and are still collecting. Guess it is kind of like the gun I wanted to make with a special barrel. The lead time was so long, I might be dead before I could get the barrel, so I took another direction. Us old guys think differently and I did take care of my grandson's who were complaining about never able find #11 primers and powder. I have the time to look things up and call businesses because they don't have the time. So rather than complain, I found both powder and primers at locations by them. I called the grandson's, told them where to purchase the items and now it was up to them. They got their primers and powder. I am one old person who loves the computer. Work hard enough on it and you can find what you are looking for. What you are not going to do is change those 70-80 year old's - no sense in trying. 😊
 
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the boomers are the reason young people cant buy anything related to shooting anything. you can barely get bullet molds. you cant count the number of young guys that just gave up trying to get started because of selfish gluttonous insatiable boomers buying everything at 70-80 years old
Well, the silver lining is that very soon all that stuff is going to be on the second-hand market.
 
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They talk about the re-emergence of muzzloading back in the 60's. Well, what was the interest and participation prior to that?
That is an excellent question I have pondered myself. As we struggle to find members in the North-South Skirmish Association, I have often wondered, "Man, not only did they recruit individuals back then, but entire teams and regions!

The N-SSA was founded in 1950. They were probably riding high on the upcoming 100th anniversary of the Civil War. Plus the last of the living Civil War veterans were passing away at that time. That may have helped in some regard. But it's still amazing that the group could spontaneously appear with enough teams forming quickly enough to be able to spawn competitions.

Our organization has a serious problem today in that anything associated with the Confederacy is now considered taboo. As you might expect, all of the teams in the Deep South Region are Confederate. I dread trying to hold recruiting events at gun shows or whatever because I don't want to look like neo-Confederates or whatever. I try to make sure that we have people in both Union and Confederate uniforms at the tables but then I feel like I'm sort of pulling a fast one on potential recruits because we don't actually have any Union teams to join up with.

I want to set up a recruiting tent at our local public shooting range (the rangers at the range said no problem I just have to call the head honcho and get permission). But I'm afraid they might not let us do it if we have anything Confederate displayed. And I'm not sure it would be "safe" to do it anyway. The ideal thing would be to set up with everyone wearing Union uniforms and fly the Union flag but I'm again I'm afraid I'll get people who want to sign up and then they'll find out that all the teams are actually Confederate.
 

TDM

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the boomers are the reason young people cant buy anything related to shooting anything. you can barely get bullet molds. you cant count the number of young guys that just gave up trying to get started because of selfish gluttonous insatiable boomers buying everything at 70-80 years old
Well, it’s a matter of opinion. From a fair number of the post I read from folks complaining about not being able to find this & that, I just don’t think they’re trying hard enough. And I assume most of these are from younger guys, could be wrong. But condemning another age group for having the time and money to keep ample supplies on hand for their hobby makes no sense to me. It’s not my responsibility to insure someone has what they need for a hobby, that responsibility lies with the individual.
 
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TDM

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That is an excellent question I have pondered myself. As we struggle to find members in the North-South Skirmish Association, I have often wondered, "Man, not only did they recruit individuals back then, but entire teams and regions!

The N-SSA was founded in 1950. They were probably riding high on the upcoming 100th anniversary of the Civil War. Plus the last of the living Civil War veterans were passing away at that time. That may have helped in some regard. But it's still amazing that the group could spontaneously appear with enough teams forming quickly enough to be able to spawn competitions.

Our organization has a serious problem today in that anything associated with the Confederacy is now considered taboo. As you might expect, all of the teams in the Deep South Region are Confederate. I dread trying to hold recruiting events at gun shows or whatever because I don't want to look like neo-Confederates or whatever. I try to make sure that we have people in both Union and Confederate uniforms at the tables but then I feel like I'm sort of pulling a fast one on potential recruits because we don't actually have any Union teams to join up with.

I want to set up a recruiting tent at our local public shooting range (the rangers at the range said no problem I just have to call the head honcho and get permission). But I'm afraid they might not let us do it if we have anything Confederate displayed. And I'm not sure it would be "safe" to do it anyway. The ideal thing would be to set up with everyone wearing Union uniforms and fly the Union flag but I'm again I'm afraid I'll get people who want to sign up and then they'll find out that all the teams are actually Confederate.

Please don’t let yourself fall prey to that kind of thinking. Fear is the mind killer, especially if you try to deny history.
 

SolidLeadSlug

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If it wasn't for Britishmilitariaforums and British Muzzloaders on YouTube, the old grumpy guys running the muzzloader store near me I would have been dissuaded a long time ago from muzzloading. AVOID MUZZLOADER SUPPLY IN FIFE, WA.
 
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It’s not my responsibility to insure you have what you need, that responsibility lies with the individual.
This is absolutely true, but it leads to what is known as the "tragedy of the commons", which originated in 1833.


"In economics, the tragedy of the commons is a situation in which individual users, who have open access to a resource unhampered by shared social structures or formal rules that govern access and use, act independently according to their own self-interest and, contrary to the common good of all users, cause depletion of the resource through their uncoordinated action."

When you have a public resource it behooves you to get as much as you can when you can. This especially rings true if you have been bitten by shortages in the past, as we all have. So if you go into your local sporting goods store and there are 10 tins of percussion caps on the shelf, you might rightly think in your own best interest you will buy all 10. Then there are no more for anyone else.

When everyone operates in this way, it causes depletion of the resource. A similar situation happened with the collapse of the North Atlantic Cod fisheries in 1993, following massive overfishing in the 1960s. Stocks are not expected to recover to sustainable levels until 2030.

This is why whenever I happen upon percussion caps, or primers, or whatnot, I try not to buy it out, even though I might be able to afford to do so. Last time I found percussion caps at Cabela's they had 10 tins of #10 Remington caps. I bought 5 and left 5, even though I could have afforded to buy all of them.
 

stephenprops1

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Which generation is at fault for that?
I would not blame any generation, per-se. The times are changing. We are becoming a remnant of the past. I have two sons. I raised them to shoot, hunt, fish, camp and other such things. One (age 42) is now a liberal. He hates guns, conservatives, Republicans and most anything I believe. The other son (age 40) is much like me. He does not care to hunt, but he likes to shoot, and he does own a couple of guns. I introduced two nephews to guns and muzzleloaders. One is 41 and the other is 16. The 16-year-old is really into muzzleloaders and has shot the 45 caliber I gave him quite often. I schooled him in everything he needs to get started. In addition to the gun, I gave him everything he needs to get started.
 

TDM

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I would not blame any generation, per-se. The times are changing. We are becoming a remnant of the past. I have two sons. I raised them to shoot, hunt, fish, camp and other such things. One (age 42) is now a liberal. He hates guns, conservatives, Republicans and most anything I believe. The other son (age 40) is much like me. He does not care to hunt, but he likes to shoot, and he does own a couple of guns. I introduced two nephews to guns and muzzleloaders. One is 41 and the other is 16. The 16-year-old is really into muzzleloaders and has shot the 45 caliber I gave him quite often. I schooled him in everything he needs to get started. In addition to the gun, I gave him everything he needs to get started.
“Remnant of the past”. I agree, you hit the nail on the head. Hope we’re wrong.
 

cannonball1

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They talk about the re-emergence of muzzloading back in the 60's. Well, what was the interest and participation prior to that?
Back East was different, but out West in the 60's, there was virtually nothing as far a muzzleloaders. A very few of the originals were available and that's it. The insurgency of the bow was just starting. Bow ranges sprung up and special bow hunts were the sport of the late 50'a and early 60.s. It took the early 70's with CVA and TC and a special ML muzzleloader deer hunt to start the interest, at least here in Utah. It took fire, with clubs springing up across the State and everyone wanted a TC Hawken, soon after came the more original looking, straight shooting Green River Rifle made in Roosevelt, UT. Then came the hardcore bucksinners who sorta looked down on the other ML shooters. In the beginning everyone was welcome to the rendezvous, in camo or buckskins, or anything else. Later some of the major clubs required, sleeping out in the wild for a couple of nights, period clothes you had made yourself, teepees, etc. The smaller local clubs, with some of the hardcore buckskinner joining another bigger club, just faded away. Then came the ML Hunts that included the Brand X ML'ers, scopes, etc which killed the idea of a ML get-to-gether and the traditionalists are all, but gone with their period guns collecting dust in the cabinet. Not many of us who shoot traditional left in rural So. Utah except to maybe get it out on Thanksgiving to show the Grandkids.

A few of us have been trying to solicit the Wildlife Board to change the ML Hunts for traditional guns only, but it seems to go against deaf ears. Regardless I don't expect to see the small rendezvous and clubs come back. The young people seem to go for the guns that will shoot a mile. Sorry to see, but now I'm just too old. I would just fall down in the fire. 😊
 
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Why would you label me infallible? I did not attack you or any other specific person, yet you did me with your sarcasm. You have attempted to belittle me as a person because I have an opinion. Why? Don't you see how that reflects on you as an individual? If you can't control your own mouth, how might you teach your kids anything? Please don't be part of the problem. You are grown up and it is nigh impossible to help you now; it seems you have already established your own mindset. If you believe parents fail their children, then it follows that your parents failed you. All that said, calm down and don't say things on this otherwise friendly forum that negates why the forum exists. I feel your ego won't allow you to leave this alone. I'm just requesting in public that you think before you post.
Your statement is that your logic is infallible. The words you use are definite statements of a lost cause. How else could anyone read them?

We have raised 4 kids, we have a Chemical Engineer, IT manager, RN with a major Oncology service, Their spouses are an Electrical Engineer, IT for a huge company, and hopefully another spouse soon who has a Masters Degree in music.
After retiring from Heavy Equipment I went to work with my wife at the High School. She taught dual credit and AP courses for 38 years. I ended up running their In School Suspension class for 4 years, students who got in trouble for one reason or another.
I surprised myself by connecting with the students, especially the knot heads I had in my room. They were all behind in their work and had issues at home. They had to calm down and work on missing assignments. NO PHONES allowed. They almost all responded to the proper guidance.

Next to my room was the special needs room and they were hands down my favorite students. Nothing false or deceitful about them. Their ability to understand things and their emotions were all over the place . I told them dumb jokes and laughed with them. Often one would have a bad day and they would spend time with me until they calmed down. It was a humbling and uplifting experience.

True, there are a lot of teenagers with issues, mostly due to the parents. They are a small percentage of the students. The good news is the majority are the same messed up/lovable kids we were at that age. Most will become good. hardworking members of our society.

Mike on FL: These are the same kids in the front lines in all our Armed Forces. Giving their time and lives to the greater good. You should be ashamed to treat them with anything but respect.

Don
 
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