Jim Chambers Siler lock??

[fw707]

Is there any way to tell if a Siler lock was assembled by Chambers, or bought in kit form and assembled by someone else?
According to the Chambers website, all of the Siler locks (and kits) since 1993 have come from his shop, but is there a stamp or something on the locks to indicate assembly by Chambers?

Thanks!

 

[Birddog6]

Yes. To the best of my knowledge, if it was assembled in Jim shop the screw that holds the hammer on to the tumbler is a machined screw. I do know Jims locks have a letter stamped in the back of the lock & tht same initial us usually stamped on the frizzen also. What it means, I don't know.

This is a lock from Jims shop. Notice the machined screw head & rounded off.

This is a Siler lock built by someone else. The screw head is flat & it has a straight bevel cut at the edges of the screw head.

 

[Harddog]

Yes, Chambers uses a different head on the screw that holds the cock on to the tumbler shaft on those locks assembled and sold by him. Go to Chambers web site and look at the screw head on the Siler locks pictured. This different screw head is not just on locks assembled by Chambers himself, but also on locks assembled by some other assemblers who do that work for Chambers.

Randy Hedden

 

[fw707]

Well, thanks for the replies, but now I'm even more confused. :grin:
My lock has the bevelled screw, and Jim's website shows the bevelled screw on the small Siler--not the round headed machined screw in Birddog6's picture.
My lockplate also has a stamp on the inside that looks like a "3" in a circle.

 

[fw707]

Here are the best pictures I could get:

 

[Harddog]

I guess I steered you wrong telling you to look at Chambers web site for screw ID. Apparently Chambers is still using pictures of the Siler locks on his website from before he started using two different types of heads on the screws. I have always bought my Siler locks directly from Jim C. and I just checked my supply of Siler locks that I have in the shop and they all have the round head screw with a flange on them.

I have no idea what the three stands for. However, some of the guys who assemble locks for Chambers mark the inside of the locks. For example a fellow named Robert Ray, who used to and possibly still does assemble locks for Chambers, would mark the inside of the lockplate with a double "R" back to back. I have had Silers with several different markings on the inside of the lockplate.

Since the only locks Chambers sells as kits are the Siler line of locks you don't have to worry about who assembled any of the other locks.

Randy Hedden

 

[fw707]

Thanks Harddog! I appreciate your replies. :winking:
I copied and pasted this from Chamber's website:

"Assembled Locks

Jim Chambers Flintlocks, Ltd. is proud to offer precision assembled locks for the discriminating gunbuilder or shooter who desires a lock which is a cut above other available locks. Each lock is carefully assembled from the finest carbon steels available and is heat-treated for long, reliable service. All bearing surfaces are polished. Tumbler axles are lathe-turned to exacting dimensions. All bearing holes are drilled undersize and then reamed for extra smoothness. All locks include a fly in the tumbler for use with set triggers. We offer a money-back guarantee if not 100% satisfied."


I was just wondering if I have a lock assembled by Chambers Ltd., or a lock assembled from a kit by someone else.

 

[Harddog]

FW,

It would appear that, if your lock is fairly new, it was assembled by someone else than Chambers or his guys. Chambers used the flat top screw in all his Siler locks until a few years ago when he instituted the change in screws as a way of telling which ones were assembled by him. However, that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with your lock. There are lots of guys out there who assemble Siler locks from kits and do a very good job of doing it. Chambers sells a whole lot of Siler kits to other people who assemble and then resell them.

A few years ago Chambers found that he was guaranteeing Siler locks that he had no control over how they were assembled. So, he changed the lock screw so he would know whether it was one of his locks or one assembled by someone else.

The parts in the lock are all the same so if something goes wrong with your lock you can send it back to whoever you bought it from for warrantee or you can buy replacement parts right from Chambers.

Randy Hedden

 

[Birddog6]

If your small Siler was built in Chambers shop or buy one of his builders, it would
be identical to the lock at the bottom of this photo, which is a small Siler.
(screw head on the hammer is turned with a small lip at the edge).

Top Chambers Golden Age
Middle Chambers Deluxe Siler
Bottom Chambers Small Siler

 

[lanedh]

Well, either my eyesight has remarkably improved or I'm hallucinating, but it looks like the letter S is stamped on the tail (back end) of the tumbler.

BJ

 

[Birddog6]

If you remove the frizzen it may have that same letter stamped on the base of the frizzen also. I noticed allot of mine have had a letter stamped on the lock, tumbler & frizzen. I am guessing those parts were fitted into a lock & then the parts were removed, possibly hardened, tempered & then back to the same lock. They are all hand assembled and hand fitted, not machine assembled. :hmm:

 

[Vaino]

In 1980 I assembled my first Siler flintlock kit because of the poor quality of the locks on the market at that time. When a few more "Silers" were available from various suppliers, I purchased some to save time and money which turned out to be a "manure shoot".....a few were good, but most required an inordinate amount of repairs, which shouldn't be required on a new lock. Six years ago I started using Chambers locks purchased directly from him and outside of the few times when his locks didn't "fit" the style, wouldn't even consider using locks not purchased directly from him. This has eliminated any doubt as to the origen of the lock and has saved many hours of "tinkering" to say the least, in building a LR w/ a reliable flintlock....Fred

 

[fw707]

Thanks everybody for the information!
The lock is on a gun built by Tip Curtis. I was curious as to whether Tip assembled the lock, or got it already assembled from Chambers.
Either way, it's a great lock and I'm totally satisfied with it. :thumbsup:

 

[RMillet]

I've got a lock from back in the days when Bud Siler was still making them and always thought it was a fantastic lock. Last year I bought a Chambers Round-Faced English lock and I'm absolutely astonished by the difference. I think this thing could light off a pan of powder under water! I've got guns with L & R locks, Davis locks and a couple of "kit" guns with Spanish locks but I don't believe I'll ever buy anything but a Chambers lock again.

Dick

 

[Birddog6]

If you got the rifle from Tip recently it is not a Chambers lock, as he has someone else build his locks. But whoever is building them for me is doing a pretty good job, as I have used allot of Tip's Silers locks and they all worked fine. In fact, a friend of mine has a large Siler lock on a rifle I built & that the lock came from Tip's and he says he got over 300 shots from the first 2 flints in that lock! In the past if Jim was out of the lock I wanted I would go to Tip's and hand pick a lock from his inventory. Now I buy them 5-6 at a time from Jim & this way I know I have what I need when I want it.

The photo of the rifle laying across the deer antler on the first page of this thread is the lock that gotten over 300 shots from 2 flints & it came from Tip Curtis. I did was disassemble the lock & polish all of the bearing points on the lock. But for some reason that particulare lock is exceptional. I had another exceptional lock back in ? 1999-2000 or so that ended up being a Chambers Golden Age lock & it got over 120 shots per flint several times for me.
Once in a while one just has Everything perfect on them, and by the time I find out the rifle is gone ! ha ha ha ! :rotf:

 

[fw707]

Thanks Birddog6!
I got around 70 shots from the first flint in this lock. :winking:

 

[Deadeye]

BD, What's to keep anyone from using that same screw on locks they build?

 

[Birddog6]

Well, I can't tell ya that. But I can tell ya he knows his own locks. Kinda like a watchmaker would know his own work ? I took a lock to him at Friendship one time that needed a part & asked him if it was one of his & he immediately showed me several things he does different on his locks and then one of his locks he built & you could see the dif. on how they were built, polished, etc.
He is a true artist in lockmaking & also in riflebuilding, as he has made some remarkable rifles.
:thumbsup: