Is this a Southern Mountain rifle

[Jedd]

Bought this on an auction. Can not find any ID markings. It looks a lot like a Southern Mountain Rifle, but has brass instead of iron. Any ideas or information is much appreciated.

 

[longhunter 1776]

i would say it could pass for a southern style,looks good.mickey

 

[TraderVic]

I had a TOTW catalog some time back that offered a parts set for a rifle similar to this.
It was referenced as a Werner Ohio Rifle, early percussion.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

To me that looks more like a full stock Hawken type, if there is such a thing.

 

[oldwood]

Late period longrifle , that could have been made in many places. Pa. , Southern N.Y. state ,Ohio , you name it.

 

[Jedd]

It’s pretty plain, and has the wide end at the end of the barrel, without a nose cap. I’ve seen this on Southern Mountain rifles but not really much else. Was the Ohio rifle similar?

 

[Notchy Bob]

It doesn’t look southern to me. It has a “Golden Age” style Germanic lockplate. The front end of the trigger guard bow looks unusual. Brass furniture is not unheard of on southern rifles but I think it would be atypical for a mountain rifle. The back bend on the tip of the front trigger would be unusual. Southern mountaineers liked long barrels, too, in the 44” to 46” range and often longer. That one looks short.

There were certainly “parts” guns being built back in the day, all over the settled sections of the country, rifles that didn’t necessarily fit a specific regional style, especially as more people traveled and had re-stocks and repairs done in places other than where their rifles were built. Honestly, it looks like a 21st century rifle made of assorted parts the builder liked, which doesn’t mean it’s not a nice rifle. It looks neatly put together and may make a nice shooter. I just wouldn’t call it a southern mountain rifle.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Jedd]

It doesn’t look southern to me. It has a “Golden Age” style Germanic lockplate. The front end of the trigger guard bow looks unusual. Brass furniture is not unheard of on southern rifles but I think it would be atypical for a mountain rifle. The back bend on the tip of the front trigger would be unusual. Southern mountaineers liked long barrels, too, in the 44” to 46” range and often longer. That one looks short.

There were certainly “parts” guns being built back in the day, all over the settled sections of the country, rifles that didn’t necessarily fit a specific regional style, especially as more people traveled and had re-stocks and repairs done in places other than where their rifles were built. Honestly, it looks like a 21st century rifle made of assorted parts the builder liked, which doesn’t mean it’s not a nice rifle. It looks neatly put together and may make a nice shooter. I just wouldn’t call it a southern mountain rifle.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Thanks. It’s not an original. I’m just curious what style it’s supposed to be. But you say someone put together parts to make a rifle. This makes sense with the different things represented. It sounds like That was something that would have been done long ago as people moved across the country to new places. It’s a good quality gun and nicely put together. Good info, thanks

 

[tenngun]

We associate SMR with iron, curved butts, and plain.
While federal times saw the golden age ‘Kentucky’ many plain guns were made. And our museums are full of guns that are not of any school.
Guns got broken stocks and restocking and using old ‘mismatched parts was well known.
While poor boy was a common southern thing many SMR were made with brass and silver, and often mixed
So that’s kinda a ‘early nineteenth century long rifle one(1) each’ of not any particular type. Such a gun could be found from Michigan to Texas

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

NO

 

[longhunter 1776]

I have seen so many differnt southern styles,almost anything may pass.depends on a builder what parts did they have or what the buyers needs were or his ideas.I found the southern rifles were wide open to what was what on them,Iron mount later brass monted and fancy as well,,depends on the maker ,buyer as i said,,I build a earlier vervsions of the southern mountain,say rev. war eras,,,wich didnt look like a later style kiblers,,thease were what i found,,,early lancasters patterns,,and monted with whatever they wanted plus calibers to their want and need,,dont forget the poor boys,,a sawed pank with a lock and barrel sometimes,,this is a noce rife so whatever it is ,,,it is nice! mickey

 

[tenngun]

It’s pretty plain, and has the wide end at the end of the barrel, without a nose cap. I’ve seen this on Southern Mountain rifles but not really much else. Was the Ohio rifle similar?

There were full stock Ohio rifles, most were half. Generally brass and silver mounted with round tailed imported locks. The wood was usually not carved, but there tended to be light engraving on the metal. Patch and cap boxes were common and the side plate fancy, but pretty much devoid of other inlays.
Like SMR they tended to have big crescent butts. Most were small caliber but thick barrels. Every thing was slim and dainty otherwise

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

generally smr are iron mounted

 

[TDM]

Just to add my 2 cents to the consensus, it is not a SMR.

 

[Jedd]

We associate SMR with iron, curved butts, and plain.
While federal times saw the golden age ‘Kentucky’ many plain guns were made. And our museums are full of guns that are not of any school.
Guns got broken stocks and restocking and using old ‘mismatched parts was well known.
While poor boy was a common southern thing many SMR were made with brass and silver, and often mixed
So that’s kinda a ‘early nineteenth century long rifle one(1) each’ of not any particular type. Such a gun could be found from Michigan to Texas

Good information. So I can definitely rule out that it is a production rifle. Probably made by an individual to suit their fancy?

 

[tenngun]

Good information. So I can definitely rule out that it is a production rifle. Probably made by an individual to suit their fancy?

Oh yeah, I’m not familiar with any over the counter that looks like that. That looks like a silar German lock. That used to be the gold standard and is still a keeper. # 1gun right there

 

[longhunter 1776]

Good information. So I can definitely rule out that it is a production rifle. Probably made by an individual to suit their fancy?

well after looking it over better,it dose have some southern traits like that muzzle end see how it flares?Only seen that one southern rifles,never really liked it myself and i dont put that on the ones i do,but!every builder does something different, like the lock as well someone said it looked golden age,well it is a siler,wich thease rifles were made durring that period as well,and at that time money was coming to yhe south early 1800s,not as fancy as northern rifles although ,there are very fancy brass mounted southen rifles at this time as well,most iron mounts were mountain rifles, now even thats not quite true because once again how much money you got for me to build this rifle-gun fer yew son?? se what i mean?? besides who cares?this is a real nice rife,call it what you want,it surly dont even come close to a hawken for sure,, but its a nice late rifle,mickey

 

[sheriff john]

Nice rifle regardless of what you want to call it. Hope it's a good shooter.

 

[brushyspoons]

Those triggers remind me a lot of Davis triggers, is there any marking on the trigger plate? It might be obscured by the triggerguard.

 

[Johnnyntrain]

I had a TOTW catalog some time back that offered a parts set for a rifle similar to this.
It was referenced as a Werner Ohio Rifle, early percussion.

I bought a 40 cal flintlock off a guy who bought it from TOTW He can't remember the maker, thinks it's an ohio maker. Still have that catalog? From what year approx.?