I have a problem

[chuck-ia]

I am 54, been shooting muzzleloaders for around 20 years. I have a dear friend who just the past couple years has got back into muzzleloaders, used to shoot a lot years ago. Problem is I noticed he was popping caps right in front of his shooting box, (not going to the shooting line and pointing downrange). Then he had a missfire, I was ready to take a shot, and when his gun didn't go off he turned to go back to the bench with his gun pointed right at me as he turned to go back to the bench , got back to the bench, popped a couple caps and blew down the barrel.I have all the respect in the world for this guy, but I think I am going to have to risk losing a friend and tell him how I feel. What would you do? flinch

 

[cheatherly]

Tell him , he should understand. I would rather upset a friend, than be shot by a friend. Plus , he may not realise his error.

 

[roundball]

Ditto...you can take him aside and do it gently...sounds like he doesn't even realize he's doing it...but you have to tell him

 

[marmot]

My friends are valuable; my life even more so.

All the folks I shoot with have the implicit understanding that safety is FIRST, and bringing up a safety issue isn't an insult; it keeps us all intact. Looks to me like the only choice is to talk to him or find a new shooting partner (and one could lead to the other). It's hard, but it's your life he is putting in danger. Maybe point out that since he's just getting back into BP shooting there are a few extras to remember... like hangfires. Poor muzzle control is a different issue altogether... perhaps you can start the discussion gently with caps and hangfires and work in muzzle control along the way? Kind of a gentle reminder; "... and since hangfires are a possibility, you really have to watch the muzzle ALL the time..."

Bad situation he's put you in; good luck in resolving it.

m

 

[whummell]

If he's really your friend, he wont mind at all you telling him hes not being safe.

 

[rabbit03]

First off he is not only endangering your life but others around you, even if he does not care about his own.

Secondly he needs to understand that by crossing your path with his barrel or blowing down the barrel while it is still loaded can bring on certain death. I would talk to him and if that didn't work I would try to get some photos of someone who has been shot in the head with a 12 ga at about a one foot distance and show it to him and make him understand that is what he is endangering others with.

If that did not work I would sacrifice his friendship for my safety.

rabbit03

 

[cheatherly]

"...for the triupmh of evil is that good men do nothing." , Edmund Burke.

 

[mrbortlein]

Flinch,
It is better that he hears it from you rather than a range officer; simply because if someone else tells him they might not be nice about it. Then he might be upset with you for NOT telling him. So tell him, or get more life insurance for the both of you.
mrbortlein

 

[mike alexandre]

Away from the range and over a cup of coffee and before he shoots next ask him what he would do if he saw a friend of his not using sensible safety rules. You know what the answer will be. Chances are hes so wrapped up getting back into bp shooting he doesnt realise hes not being safe. Also he may have shot a lot on his own and had no one to pull him up before.

 

[BrownBear]

I've broken several people- friends and strangers- of sloppy muzzle control. I hit the ground and yell like hell: "Jesus, you pointed that thing right at me!!!!!" It's best if you can throw a handful of papers or a cup of coffee in the air at the same time and really get everyone else on line looking in your direction. It's never taken more than twice.

 

For the sake of your safety, and anyone else in the general area - not to mention for the shooting community in general - you got to set him on the right path. Someone else may not be so kind in doing it as you clearly would be.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Years ago, I took a self defense pistol course with John Farnam. He insisted on us using a " Live " range format, where no gun was to be holstered unless it was loaded and ready to fire, save for use of the safeties. At the end of this instruction he also told us that he had been threatened many times, and was fully prepared to shoot anyone who pointed a gun at him. He then said, since you are going to be carrying a gun under a Live range rule, I am going to presume that if you point that gun at me, its loaded, and the only reason you are pointing it at me is to shoot me. I will then kill you where you stand!

We didn't have anyone being careless about where they pointed a gun in that course.

Please, do say something to your buddy. Do it alone, so he is not embarrassed in front of everyone. I once violated a minor safety rule at Friendship and the Range officer called me on it. I thanked him for it, and apologized to him. I was very greatful that he had seen me do something unsafe, that I was not aware of at the time. I think he was pleased that I thanked him. I am sure he didn't know if He was going to get an argument, or be cussed out, or what. Probably the last thing he expected was for me to thank him.

 

[Walks with fire]

Anyone who points a muzzle in the wrong direction is going to do it again and after I see it I don't go near or around that person ever again. There are people I used to hunt with that did it crossing ditches and such, pointed at deer when driving fields when there were other drivers in their line of fire. Nope, I won't hunt or shoot with people like that.

 

[FlintlockJonny]

I agree with brown bear...I woulda jumped out of the way and asked him what the hell he was doing!!!! Or just be polite about it and remind him to keep his muzzle pointed downrange or out of harms way. Sounds like he has no realization of what he is doing though. If he takes it the wrong way, so be it, he'll get over it eventually when he tells all his other friends about what you said and they agree with you.

 

[chuck-ia]

Yup,just gonna have to come up with a casual way of talking about it. Maybe mention popping caps in front of the loading box and take it from there, speaking of which. How many of you went to pop a cap on an unloaded gun only to be surprized that it was loaded? I have seen it done 3 times, hate to say it but one of those 3 was me. thanks for the replys, flinch

 

[Zonie]

Sense you are shooting at a range, you can keep your advice purely on an accademic level by saying something like:
______________________________________
"Oh, did I tell you? I was talking to some folks on the muzzleloading website and the folks there were saying that at the ranges they shoot at no one is allowed to pop a cap on their gun unless they are standing on the firing line with the muzzle pointed downrange!

They were also saying, any time anyone carries a rifle around at their ranges, when they are not on the firing line, the muzzle has to be pointed at the sky. No exceptions.
Sounds like pretty good advice to me! I bet the rules here are similar, or at least they should be.

One guy actually said he was glad that he was on the firing line with the gun pointed downrange when he popped a cap with his unloaded gun. Turned out that the damn thing was loaded after all! Boy, can you imagine how dumb he felt?"
____________________________________________
Of course, I wouldn't expect you to use my words but to use your own but you get the idea.

IMO, by keeping it impersonal it should not cause a problem with your friendship but it still lets him/her know what the rules should be and that you are in agreement with them.

zonie
PS: If he answers "Those sound like pretty good rules." you know your "home free".
If he answers "Sounds like a bunch of dumb, picky ideas that some weenie dreamed up just to pick on us shooters." you know your in for a rough row to hoe and will have to decide if you want to be around him when he's shooting a gun.

 

[walruskid1]

you tell him, soon! it will be better coming from you instead of a range official at, say, the national matches! :redface: been there, done that!

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

As a Range Safety Officer and Shooting League Chairman of the PPC League at one of the local Clubs that I belong too, I too have basically said the same thing to participants at the PPC League that I run! In PPC each competitor draws a loaded sidearm from a holster and engages police targets at distances from 7 to 50 yards. Up to 6 shooters are firing at the same time from a common firing line.

I tell all of the new shooters not to point a gun at me or "I'll have to shoot them!". Needless to say, everyone on the line, including the master class competitors, are instantly reminded not to "sweep the line" with their muzzles. I then confide in the new shooters that so far, I haven't had to resort to those extreme measures, and "I hope that I don't have to tonight". It GETS THE POINT ACROSS!

I've been running the League for a couple of years now, and I haven't had to D-Q a single shooter :wink: .

Next time at the range, be sure that you cap-off first, with your friend watching. Then politely go into muzzle direction courtesy as you drink some bottled water about the loading bench, etc. He'll probably remember how he used to do things SAFELY, and start doing them as they "come back to him". Lead by example and the lightbulb will once again burn bright :wink: . It it takes a sledge hammer to make him be safe, so be it! Better to get sledged into remembering than shooting someone accidentaly :nono: :shake: :redface: .

Here's to hoping that your problem fixes itself!

Dave

 

[Johnny Tremain]

You Sir, are a much better friend than Me.

He would have woken up with my butt plate inprinted on his forehead

 

[lanedh]

Solon, one of the Seven Wise Men of Greece, said: "In giving advice, seek to help, not please your friend."

BJ