I don't know what I don't know ..do you?

[Brokenbear]

I have a lot of unmentionables I never shoot and I am really enjoying casting, cartridge making, cap making, tuning and shooting my Colt 1849,1862 and 1860 ..Colt 3rd gen, Uberti and Uberti in the same order ..those are for shooters
But I'm playing with converting some unmentionable $$ into originals placing true history in my hands
So ..I've been looking at originals ..what I am learning is I am dumber than a box of rocks ..I have dangerous amounts of lack of knowledge ..I need some book learning for sure..
Take a Colt 1849 Pocket model ..
Do you know how many shots the cylinders were chambered for?
How many hammer shapes there were?
What barrel lengths were offered with and without ball ram ?
Trigger guard size and shape variations?
Backstrap material and finishes?
How many and or serial number ranges of just those few variations mentioned above were made?
etc etc etc
It is an interesting enough series of manufacturing evolution's to make one's self knowledge seem most inadequate Especially if one were to "dabble" into acquiring a few originals
There must be someone who has authored a definitive series/book on Colt cap and balls to at least start the process

Bear

 

[Phil Coffins]

A fellow could make a pretty fair collection by just getting the various variations of one Colt.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Interesting.

 

[William Lincoln]

There is a book mentioned by Mike Bellevue (duelist 1954-Youtube) that
has recently come out with extensive historical notes and photos of
most BP revolvers esp Colts.I Will buy that book for my library when I go
back and search his mention of it. Colts are an entire class alone of Antiques.

 

[nkbj]

And for some of the variations it can be difficult to find information you get a really safe warm fuzzy about. I wanted to try to get a present day remake of Colt's forty caliber 1851 experiments. Took a bit of digging to decide what to do.

 

[No second place]

I have a lot of unmentionables I never shoot and I am really enjoying casting, cartridge making, cap making, tuning and shooting my Colt 1849,1862 and 1860 ..Colt 3rd gen, Uberti and Uberti in the same order ..those are for shooters
But I'm playing with converting some unmentionable $$ into originals placing true history in my hands
So ..I've been looking at originals ..what I am learning is I am dumber than a box of rocks ..I have dangerous amounts of lack of knowledge ..I need some book learning for sure..
Take a Colt 1849 Pocket model ..
Do you know how many shots the cylinders were chambered for?
How many hammer shapes there were?
What barrel lengths were offered with and without ball ram ?
Trigger guard size and shape variations?
Backstrap material and finishes?
How many and or serial number ranges of just those few variations mentioned above were made?
etc etc etc
It is an interesting enough series of manufacturing evolution's to make one's self knowledge seem most inadequate Especially if one were to "dabble" into acquiring a few originals
There must be someone who has authored a definitive series/book on Colt cap and balls to at least start the process

Bear

Finding a collector in your area to convince to help mentor you will help.Traveling to some civil war antique gun shows to learn. Visit Dixie Gun Works. ..c

 

[russellshaffer]

If you aren't trying to make money on your Colt collection why not just buy whatever you like. If you are happy with your guns don't worry about impressing anyone else. A bargain is when both parties are happy.

 

[hrt4me]

Take a Colt 1849 Pocket model...
Do you know how many shots the cylinders were chambered for?
How many hammer shapes there were?
What barrel lengths were offered with and without ball ram ?
Trigger guard size and shape variations?
Backstrap material and finishes?
How many and or serial number ranges of just those few variations mentioned above were made?
etc etc etc
It is an interesting enough series of manufacturing evolutions to make ones self knowledge seem most inadequate Especially if one were to "dabble" into acquiring a few originals
There must be someone who has authored a definitive series/book on Colt cap and balls to at least start the process

Bear

I have two original Colt 1849 Pocket .31 caliber black powder percussion revolvers, one with a 5-shot cylinder and the other with a 6-shot cylinder... they both shoot well enough, and I have not studied any other differences between the two

 

[sheriff john]

Internet makes it easier to learn, for sure, but some classic books and old issues of certain magazines have helped me. This here forum is pretty darn full of folks who know a LOT more than I ever will about things that I find of interest.

One thing I've learned is that, as a rule I go by, the pricier the gun the more apt I find the probability of both downright fakes or something made up from parts. Factory letters are expensive and some are not available, but before I spend big bucks on an original antique, knowledge is essential.

At least with most modern unmentionables, one can easily determine what you're looking at - regardless of what the seller claims. Without documentation, what's claimed is just a story. Might be a colorful story, but could easily be fiction. Buyer beware,

 

[jimhallam]

Internet makes it easier to learn, for sure, but some classic books and old issues of certain magazines have helped me. This here forum is pretty darn full of folks who know a LOT more than I ever will about things that I find of interest.

One thing I've learned is that, as a rule I go by, the pricier the gun the more apt I find the probability of both downright fakes or something made up from parts. Factory letters are expensive and some are not available, but before I spend big bucks on an original antique, knowledge is essential.

At least with most modern unmentionables, one can easily determine what you're looking at - regardless of what the seller claims. Without documentation, what's claimed is just a story. Might be a colorful story, but could easily be fiction. Buyer beware,

The problem with the Internet is that there are so many errors -- people tend to believe it when it has been "Googled" (etc) .. - and when repeated enough times they become truth --- just like when "authors" copy information from older books.

 

[Brokenbear]

There is a book mentioned by Mike Bellevue (duelist 1954-Youtube) that
has recently come out with extensive historical notes and photos of
most BP revolvers esp Colts.I Will buy that book for my library when I go
back and search his mention of it. Colts are an entire class alone of Antiques.

WL it would be great if when you find that book and reviewed it to let us know your opinion of it

Finding a collector in your area to convince to help mentor you will help.Traveling to some civil war antique gun shows to learn. Visit Dixie Gun Works. ..c

Likely a better chance crossing paths of knowledge at antique gun shows etc ..My neighbors don't even know I collect guns and I have vaults full

If you aren't trying to make money on your Colt collection why not just buy whatever you like. If you are happy with your guns don't worry about impressing anyone else. A bargain is when both parties are happy.

Fair question ..like picking women ..You first got to know whats good and whats bad to get more good in a deal than bad ..I am looking at 2 different 1849's that appear identical to me condition wise but are spread apart $$ wise ..could be one's a bargain or one is greed ..but what if the higher one they only made 50 of it ??? ..I do agree with your basic philosophy but I would like to polish it somewhat
By the way I got lucky picking women ..only did it once ..55 years ago ..hope it carries over to my new Colt adventure

Bear

 

[11Bravo]

My only advise is to use www.gunsinternational.com as a research source as that isn't a auction site. You can get a feel for what they are asking and the overall condition. On the 1849s the 6 shot is rarer and they only made a few thousand, I also have both and the 5 shot is my keeper as I shoot it. To me numbers matching Colts are worth a bit more, and they have lots of numbers. Barrel, frame, cylinder, grip strap, arbor, and the wedge are what comes to me right away.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Well, there is more that you don't know, about generally any subject, than that you do. You can learn all you want... books are a good start, but it will always end up that even when you are old and grey, there will still be more to learn than you have already learned.

 

[Stantheman86]

To invest or to shoot?

Because my collection of Ruger unmentionables has nearly doubled in value over 10 years vs originals like high condition Trapdoors I own that have basically stagnated

Be cautious what "unmentionables " you sell because you may miss them . I wish I'd kept some of what I sold but oh well. I did almost sell my Ruger .22 SP101 and didn't, I rediscovered it yesterday and I'm so glad I held on to it . Especially with today's ammo prices and the fact that it would cost me $800 to replace it

I like to shoot so I sold most of my "originals " of old rifles and handguns, and bought stuff I could bang away with .

To each their own , some people find joy putting an original away in a safe, some people find joy in spending hours at the range shooting

 

[William P Sepessy]

I have a copy of " Colt's Variations of the Old Model Pocket Pistol, 1848 to 1872" by P.L. Shumaker. I'm pretty sure all those questions and then some could be answered. Do yourself a favor and search for a copy of this book if you are serious about obtaining original Colt pocket Models.

 

[2 shots]

1851 = .36 cal. in original colts. some repros also come in non correct .44.