How do you measure for lock panels on a tapered round barrel build??

[Larry (Omaha)]

Ok guys: All my scratch builds have been with octagon barrels. I am currently making a smoothie with a tapered round barrel, which I have never done.
The breech end needed be milled ( in my case filed) flat for the lock to seat against. This now made the breech end of the barrel a non equal measurement from C/L of bore to each barrel side.
What is proper way to determine the right and left lock panel face dimensions? Number 1. Measure equal distance off the sides of the barrel or Number 2. Measure equal distance from the C/L of the barrel?
I am leaning toward measure from C/L of barrel, but then using visual appearance, the panel on the right will visually be wider than the left when comparing off the sides of the barrel. Hope my rambling makes sense to the educated builders out there.
Thanks
Larry

 

[Pete G]

Most lock moldings differ from side plate moldings anyway. Thin the side plate molding until it looks right….if it looks right it is right.

 

[IanH]

If your lock bolster is thick enough it doesn't matter. Make your panels symmetrical to barrel center line and file the lock bolster to fit the flat on the barrel when the lock plate matches the panel depth and angle. The barrel flat should have no bearing on panel to centerline symmetry.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

If your lock bolster is thick enough it doesn't matter. Make your panels symmetrical to barrel center line and file the lock bolster to fit the flat on the barrel when the lock plate matches the panel depth and angle. The barrel flat should have no bearing on panel to centerline symmetry.

Lock bolster is .340 thick. I had thought about doing what you said, but never have had to do that. I trimmed what I deemed the least barrel metal to maintain a strong breech area, but will need a tad of angle shaved on the bolster to get the lock parallel to the C/L of the bore.
Thanks
Larry

 

[PathfinderNC]

Dave Person has an excellent, step by step tutorial on making lock panel moldings in the forum here. I think all your questions will be answered by reviewing the thread!

 

[dave_person]

Hi Larry,
I don't obsess too much with trying to match the panels. A lot depends on what you are making. The lock and bolster set the depth and size of the lock plate panel. For the sideplate, I usually just make sure the beginning and end of the panels matches when you look down from the top or up from the bottom and that the tails line up on the wrist when looking from the rear. Then I design the side plate panel to best frame the side plate not to mirror the lock panel. On British guns, the sides of the panels are usually almost parallel when looking down on them. They usually do not flair much toward the rear even if the breech of the barrel flairs significantly. That means the thickness of the barrel channel wall on the side plate side gets thinner as the breech widens. That way the side panel remains mostly parallel with the bore of the barrel. On the lock side, you file the flat in the barrel so the lock also stays close to being parallel with the bore. On many American longrifles the panels will flair toward the rear following the outside profile of the breech rather than the bore of the barrel. Keep in mind Larry, all of this is subject to your objectives and there are no strict rules that old makers followed. I also don't worry much if the top of the stock at the breech is perfectly symmetrical around the barrel tang or standing breech. Even if I carve a symmetrical object like a shell around the tang, I don't worry much if one side of the stock seems thicker than the other and the shell seems off center. So many originals were like that and often the difference is hidden by asymmetrical carving that fills up the space. On a Brown Bess I recently finished, I had to use a Pedersoli repro barrel, which is undersized at the breech compared with the originals. However, one of the most important features to preserve on a Bess is the thick, massive wrist and breech area. When you shoulder a real Bess that is your first and biggest immediate impression, it is big in the wrist. You need to feel that in your hands or it isn't a real Bess. To preserve that I allowed the side plate and lock plate panels to sightly flair toward the rear despite the fact that they are parallel on original muskets. That slight flair kept preserved proper wrist architecture with only a slight trade off (the flairing panels), which you have to look close to see.

dave

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hi Larry,
I don't obsess too much with trying to match the panels. A lot depends on what you are making. The lock and bolster set the depth and size of the lock plate panel. For the sideplate, I usually just make sure the beginning and end of the panels matches when you look down from the top or up from the bottom and that the tails line up on the wrist when looking from the rear. Then I design the side plate panel to best frame the side plate not to mirror the lock panel. On British guns, the sides of the panels are usually almost parallel when looking down on them. They usually do not flair much toward the rear even if the breech of the barrel flairs significantly. That means the thickness of the barrel channel wall on the side plate side gets thinner as the breech widens. That way the side panel remains mostly parallel with the bore of the barrel. On the lock side, you file the flat in the barrel so the lock also stays close to being parallel with the bore. On many American longrifles the panels will flair toward the rear following the outside profile of the breech rather than the bore of the barrel. Keep in mind Larry, all of this is subject to your objectives and there are no strict rules that old makers followed. I also don't worry much if the top of the stock at the breech is perfectly symmetrical around the barrel tang or standing breech. Even if I carve a symmetrical object like a shell around the tang, I don't worry much if one side of the stock seems thicker than the other and the shell seems off center. So many originals were like that and often the difference is hidden by asymmetrical carving that fills up the space. On a Brown Bess I recently finished, I had to use a Pedersoli repro barrel, which is undersized at the breech compared with the originals. However, one of the most important features to preserve on a Bess is the thick, massive wrist and breech area. When you shoulder a real Bess that is your first and biggest immediate impression, it is big in the wrist. You need to feel that in your hands or it isn't a real Bess. To preserve that I allowed the side plate and lock plate panels to sightly flair toward the rear despite the fact that they are parallel on original muskets. That slight flair kept preserved proper wrist architecture with only a slight trade off (the flairing panels), which you have to look close to see.

dave

Thanks a bunch Dave! Big help for this old man!
Larry

 

[Rob M.]

Ok guys: All my scratch builds have been with octagon barrels. I am currently making a smoothie with a tapered round barrel, which I have never done.
The breech end needed be milled ( in my case filed) flat for the lock to seat against. This now made the breech end of the barrel a non equal measurement from C/L of bore to each barrel side.
What is proper way to determine the right and left lock panel face dimensions? Number 1. Measure equal distance off the sides of the barrel or Number 2. Measure equal distance from the C/L of the barrel?
I am leaning toward measure from C/L of barrel, but then using visual appearance, the panel on the right will visually be wider than the left when comparing off the sides of the barrel. Hope my rambling makes sense to the educated builders out there.
Thanks
Larry

Dont worry about it . Flatten a small section where the bolster will fit flat up against the barrel , center punch your T.H. spot , disassemble your lock , fit the lock.plate down keeping T.H. in your boundaries via the pan , watch that pan fence ! Might have to push the lock plate a bit forward to make it fitvwhere you want . Once the plates down , there are your boundaries . T.H. position is the most important aspect . Let it dictate the others . Then mark your mortice boundaries and carry them to the S.P. side ....