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Guns of "For Trade and Treaty"

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Wondered what the oldest gun with photos and data is in this volume, as well as the oldest French gun documented. The title suggests guns dated to "1600", but would like to confirm with someone who has a copy before I purchase.

Mods please move if you feel this post belongs in another place.

Thanks everyone.
 
image.jpg

Seems like this late 17th century fowling piece is about as far back as it goes. There’s also a tulle and the bumford gun but otherwise it’s all NWTG’s
 
I had my wallet out but decided to ask first and confirm. I purchased Gale's "Trade Gun Lock Patterns 1630-1900". Love the book, it just doesn't cover my interest. The earliest French lock is 1730's. There are a couple of 1670's - 1680's English locks, two 1670's Spanish locks, and three 1640's to 1670's Dutch locks. It would be useful to correlate the pre-1700 locks to a complete gun. Or to see a complete mid 17th century French arm, with data.
 
Comparatively there aren’t enough examples of early pre-flintlock guns used in the colonies to inspire a lot of books. There are some rare or obscure ones out there.
 
It looks as if a couple of the forum brothers have answered the specific question, but I would also recommend the book, The Fusil de Tulle in New France 1691-1741, by Russel Bouchard. Track of the Wolf has it for $16.95, which is a lot for a small book (essentially a 48-page pamphlet), but there is a lot of information in there, including an excellent chapter about the early French long guns. The illustrations are all black and white, but are remarkably clear, including detail photos (inside and out) of a 1697 French lock. There are numerous professionally drafted pen-and-ink drawings also, and in my opinion these are sometimes better than photographs.

I would also recommend T.M Hamilton's Colonial Frontier Guns, available from Track for $17.95. There is quite a lot about early French guns in this book, although I find it a little disorganized.

The Bouchard book is focused entirely on French guns. The Hamilton book has a mix of nationalities and focuses on trade guns. The Gale book has the best pictures, in color, and the text gives precise measurements of every gun. You can get both the Bouchard and the Hamilton books for a little less than For Trade and Treaty, but if there is any way you can afford it, I would recommend all three. I have all three and find them all to be excellent references.

The definitive reference on French trade guns, as far as I know, is The French Trade Gun in North America 1662- 1759, by Kevin Gladysz. It was only in print for a very short time, and apparently in a limited run. I missed the opportunity to get a copy when they were available new, and used copies now start at around $300. More than I want to pay. However, you might check with your local library and see if they can get a copy via interlibrary loan.

Bonne chance! I hope you find what you need.

Notchy Bob
 
Thanks Bob. I have started a small library, and have two of the three you mention. I may have to get serious about getting access to / or a copy of "The French Trade Gun in North America 1662- 1759, by Kevin Gladysz." I may just order Gale's Trade and Treaty tonight.
 
Nor’Easter, what is your specific interest? French? English? Dutch? Only guns that would have made it to the colonies, or European guns also? Flintlocks only, or snaphaunces and matchlocks?
 
The French were trading for furs on the Saint John River drainage by the 1630's. The MicMaq, Malliseet and Maine tribes were armed with firearms by the 1640's. The following plates were recovered from Fort Pentegoet, Castine Maine ca. 1635-1654
I came across these in an article about a archeological dig at Fort Pentagoet, Castine Maine. Dates of the debris are reported as 1635-1654. Would like to see pictures of the locks (complete or partial) and the guns they are on. Other references helpful also. I have dug thru what I have for references, and other than the possible german wheellock (#4) I have not found any similiar shaped lockplates. Please reference the individual lock number below to avoid confusion. Thanks, NE
#1
View attachment 126340

#2
View attachment 126341
#3
View attachment 126342

#4
View attachment 126343
 
Hi,
I agree with Eric's assessment. For another tantalizing factoid, in Rene Chartrand's book "French Military Arms and Armor in America" on page 57 he lists a 1660 inventory of arms in Chateau St. Louis in Quebec City. In that inventory are listed 84 matchlock muskets, 25 matchlock musket barrels, 10 pistols, and 37 rifled carbines such as they are. Now what the heck did they look like.

dave
+1 on what Dave said. What do these pre 1700's look like????
 
@Nor'Easter , I don't know if this will be of any value to you or not, but I thought this was an interesting article. If you click the link, it will open a PDF file, but it is from Syracuse University and as far as I know it is safe. Here is a link to the article: A Wampum-Inlaid Musket from the 1690 Phips' Shipwreck

The focus of the discussion is on the stock of a musket recovered from a shipwreck associated with Phips Fleet, which was carrying a bunch of English colonists bound for Quebec to wage war on the French. The stock was said to be maple, suggesting to me that it was likely made in the colonies, and the association with Phips' bunch suggest English colonial origin rather than French. Wampum inlay may denote use by a native ally. The stock is incomplete, extending from the butt to a few inches forward of the lock, and the metal parts are missing. However, you get a good look at the shape of the stock, it is sort of in the timeframe of interest, and the discussion is very readable.

For what its worth...

Notchy Bob
 

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