Gun safety

Discussion in 'General Muzzleloading' started by spudnut, Aug 18, 2019.

Help Support Muzzle Loading Forum by donating:

  1. Aug 18, 2019 #1

    spudnut

    spudnut

    spudnut

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    20
    First, Im all for gun safety on the range and anywhere else, but lately every club i shoot at ( for the last 30 plus years) always has some new member yelling about any little thing they deem unsafe, They seem to be always looking for a " gotcha" running a wet patch with the the hammer back and frizzen down on a patch,loading ,but not priming before the next shot,throwing a guy off the course for no ear plugs and not refumding his 5 dollars,and the ever popular muzzles up!. I havnt commited all of these earth shattering infractions myself but one of the clubs I wont even attend anymore because of their behavior.Most of these guys have known each other for years , a friend of mine and myself were shooting the 25 yrd range with our smoothebores when a fellow showed up with his modern gear in three cases, he sets up on the 100 yrd which is at least 50 yrds away, we shot for the next hr or so till we decided we were done, we look down the line and see noone, we turn on the red lights to announce range closed and proceed down to retrieve our targets , and see this other fellow we thought who had left walking across the range . He comes up and says" didnt you see I was still shooting? No we didnt see you at all. Well I was prone 50 yrds away behind 20 benches. Oh well ,were sorry , no harm done, Well he goes marching off to the head office and lodges a complaint about us resulting in my friend almost losing his membership.
    As I say I have nothing against saftey, but this over zealous treatment of others has got me wanting to give up , bad enough all the antis out there ,but ive never seen it like this in all my life, I was hunting alone with a 12 gauge at 12 years of age and started shooting with my dad that had to hold the gun up for me at 4. Rant done guess Im just an old crmugeon now.
     
    Treestalker, Britsmoothy and smo like this.
  2. Aug 18, 2019 #2

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,203
    Likes Received:
    228
    There are one or two in every sport who become the Barney Fife of enforcement.
     
    rshveyda likes this.
  3. Aug 18, 2019 #3

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    8,112
    Likes Received:
    838
    Location:
    People's Republic of Maryland
    On my local range, you have to announce to the other shooters if you go prone, and "announce" means you have to actually speak to them and they reply they understand instead of simply yelling in their direction and claiming "they should've heard me". I've had people say I was unsafe because my flintlock didn't have a chamber-flag. :confused: "Flintlocks don't have chambers" I told the guy..., who then replied, "Well whatever they have you're supposed to have a flag"...My reply was, "If you're not bright enough to know that a chamber flag ONLY goes into firearms having chambers, then you're not smart enough to have a conversation with me." He stormed off, but never bothered me again. Then there's the guy who gets miffed when "asking" for the line to go "cold" so he can post targets, and just as he's about to step forward of the firing line without having been told the entire line is "cold", I touch off my flinter, and he gets miffed. I just point to the rule book which is laminated and displayed on a post on the range and tell him to "look up the procedures before you end up looking stupid". That usually does the trick.

    LD
     
    Treestalker and Britsmoothy like this.
  4. Aug 18, 2019 #4

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    832
    Our rule was if you walked away from your gun (muzzleloader) to chat, pee, or whatever, you put the ramrod down the barrel and a rag over it. Indicating it was unloaded.
    If it was loaded, you didn't walk away, period.

    It was an unwritten rule and never needed to be enforced.
     
  5. Aug 18, 2019 #5

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,203
    Likes Received:
    228
    At our range which is mostly unmentionables if an empty muzzleloader is on the line during “cease fire” we have the shooter put the flag between the hammer and nipple or cock and frizzen. The range requires loading at the bench behind the line with capping for priming at the line. The flag is place in the upright muzzle at the bench on the empty rifle during cease fires.
     
    Treestalker likes this.
  6. Aug 18, 2019 #6

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,203
    Likes Received:
    228
    Also, our range only proves for prone firing from an elevated bench made for that purpose. All other stations are a bench allowing either bench or offhand positions.
     
  7. Aug 18, 2019 #7

    Grimord

    Grimord

    Grimord

    Fyrstyk MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    82
    Location:
    SE CT
    Carbon 6
    That's a great rule. I will bring it up at my clubs next safety meeting.
     
  8. Aug 18, 2019 #8

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    Carbon 6

    58 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    832
    Our loading benches were designed for muzzleloaders, The muzzles were always kept pointing up. The loading benches were behind the shooting line. The other Rule was that your muzzle was always pointed up until you were on the firing line.

    Safety is not a hard thing to do if you stop and think.
     
  9. Aug 18, 2019 #9

    biliff

    biliff

    biliff

    54 Cal.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    31
    Our club skeet/trap/5 stand went a bit overboard on rules in the name of safety. Actions open and empty was no longer good enough, they also started requiring chamber flags in pumps and semi autos even when walking between shooting stations, which goes well beyond anything required at other ranges. I recently started shooting my newly acquired flintlock double to practice for bird season and you could see the heads exploding as they tried to figure out how I could “safely” move about the range. Had one guy tell me I should have to keep my gun cased “for safety”. Finally got the powers that be trained on flintlocks/frizzen stalls, etc.and everybody seems satisfied. But yeah, the tendency now a days is to go into full panic mode.
     
    spudnut likes this.
  10. Aug 18, 2019 #10

    ppg1949

    ppg1949

    ppg1949

    40 cal - b MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    72
    Location:
    W. Central Indiana
    Our range has a rule that if you leave a firearm it must be unloaded with chamber open. Muzzleloaders, extremely few of us, must be unloaded, uncocked and muzzle down in one of the rifle racks. Further, like Loyalist Dave said, you must communicate eyeball to eyeball when going down range. No prone shooting allowed anytime. Our five pistol ranges only accommodate four shooters at one time , the same for the 100m rifle range. The 300m range accommodates 14 shooters but has a Range Master when open.
     
  11. Aug 18, 2019 #11

    spudnut

    spudnut

    spudnut

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    20
    If that guy HAD almost hit us from the other end of the line something would REALLY be wrong, just a self rightous goon. When I take my last shot on a woods walk, I think my gun is pretty damn secure, youd have to be a complete idiot . I carry a loaded and primed flintlock up hill and dale all through hunting season and never pulled the trigger by mistake, dont even have a finger on the trigger. But it frosts me when some newbee barks at me about something he really knows nothing about. Here in michigan during hunting season ,its not even considered loaded by the DNR unless its primed. The carry from one certain target to the next one is about 15 ft up a small incline, but he barks out YOUCant Load there!
     
    Brokennock likes this.
  12. Aug 19, 2019 #12

    Sidney Smith

    Sidney Smith

    Sidney Smith

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    153
    The club I belong to has a dedicated muzzle loader range. There are no rules I'm aware of regarding leaving ramrods in bores or flags laid across loaded guns etc. I've never seen anyone doing any unsafe gun handling while there.

    Now I did have some old fart lay into me one time when I wasn't wearing my ID badge. He approached and gave me a once over about not wearing the badge while on the property. I stated that the bylaws only require the badge to be displayed which mine was on my shooting bag. He tried to rebuff me but I think he knew he was wrong as he gave up. I turned him in to one of the club commissioners for his belligerent way of talking to me without first even identifying himself. I told the commissioner that it would go a long way for trustees of the club, who it turned out this old man was, if they identified themselves first and were a little more polite. The commissioner knew right away who the man I had an issue with was, and said he'd talk to him. I don't know whether or not anybody ever did discipline the old codger but I never saw him again.
     
  13. Aug 19, 2019 #13

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    Brokennock

    50 Cal.

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    390
    Location:
    North Central Connecticut
    Sarah Brady has infected far too many gun clubs and shooting ranges.

    Any club or range that tells me I can't practice/shoot the way I do in the field, that includes loading, unloading, and most importantly shooting from field positions, will not be getting a dime of my money.


    Beam me up Scotty,,,,, all is f@$&!%* LOST down here.
     
    Woodnbow likes this.
  14. Aug 19, 2019 #14

    SDSmlf

    SDSmlf

    SDSmlf

    40 Cal.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    302
    Location:
    Western North Carolina
    Shoot at a private range, but in the interest of time agreed to take a couple of muzzleloaders to a nearby public range and demonstrate them to an interested coworker and his son. We pay our fees and proceed to the range. There is a range officer.

    Issue number one. Told before we could shoot ‘longer’ distances (100 yards plus) we must first demonstrate proficiency at shorter distances. Ok.

    Issue number two. Must load gun with muzzle pointed down range. No exceptions. Explained that gun is not loaded until primed or capped. Didn’t matter. No go. Handed flintlock to range officer and requested a demonstration of safe and proper loading technique. Range officer then admits that he has never handled a flintlock. Guy was clueless. At that point I request that he verify it wasn’t loaded. Not a clue how to check. Thought he was going to cry. Felt bad, but this was a ridiculous situation. Short version of story, got our range fees back, though reluctantly. Would demonstrate muzzleloaders at my private range on a future date.
     
    Woodnbow likes this.
  15. Aug 19, 2019 #15

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave

    Cannon MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    8,112
    Likes Received:
    838
    Location:
    People's Republic of Maryland
    Yes I've heard this one too. A range North of me had the rule, and when I visited with a friend and we went shooting there, one of the other members spoke up. Their rule used the word "firearm" instead of "gun", so when the guy objected I told him we weren't shooting "firearms" by the legal, county, state, and federal definition. He got all flustered and wanted to know what we were shooting, and I explained they are "antique firearms", they don't require sale by FFL dealers, and have other exemptions under the law as well. Before he could continue I suggested he tell the Range Officer and let him handle it...as "I don't know you from Adam, sir". He did and the RO looked at us, shrugged, and ignored the man.

    As for the rules at my range, you "cannot leave a firearm or muzzle loader on the bench, loaded, when the range is cold". "Loaded" means powder is down the barrel. And you can't place a loaded firearm or muzzle loader on the rack, so you have no choice but to allow the muzzleloader shooters to shoot their loaded item, and then call the range cold. So in my previous comment, the guy had to wait for me and was bothered by having to wait. Oh Well.

    I find it funny that there are all these safety rules, but I've never had any range officer ask to see my powder to be sure I haven't screwed up and am using smokeless. Even though there are plenty of examples, several from my state, where guys have put smokeless into a muzzleloader and blown themselves up. NOR have I ever seen a safety officer at an event, or range officer at a range scope my barrel(s) to ensure that the inside of the barrel isn't so corroded as to be a hazard.

    LD
     
  16. Aug 19, 2019 #16

    Sidney Smith

    Sidney Smith

    Sidney Smith

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    449
    Likes Received:
    153
    Our club has its share of self anointed authority figures, There are words in the bylaws that mention it being every member's duty to challenge anyone if they see something going on or think the person might not be a member. I can agree with this to a point, however I did not join to be their policeman. I don't break the rules and I know how to be safe and I don't need a stranger playing cop with me. And I don't put up with it either. Most guys I meet there are great people, but theres always one or two who think they are above the rest.

    I also had a guy one time come up to me and put his hand on my ID badge for no reason. I just looked at him sternly as if to say "what the heck are you doing?" and he walked away without saying a word. I turned him in to...I don't mind rules, but I do mind people who think they have the authority to enforce those rules, when clearly they don't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  17. Aug 20, 2019 #17

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    Treestalker

    45 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    Arkansas Ozarks
    -Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that! - George Carlin -Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?- A.A. Milne. - It is difficult to free idiots from the chains that they admire.- Voltaire
     
    Mean Gene and Woodnbow like this.
  18. Aug 20, 2019 #18

    shane a gress

    shane a gress

    shane a gress

    40 cal - b

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    Harrisonville PA
    I guess I should be thankful that I can shoot on my 12 acres with no rules or idiots to deal with. If I want to shoot farther than 50 yards I have to shut the horses in the lower pasture.:horseback:
     
    Crane Senior likes this.
  19. Aug 20, 2019 #19

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    Kansas Jake

    54 Cal. MLF Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,203
    Likes Received:
    228
    Shane, you are lucky and years ago on the farm I could do that too. Today I have to go to a range. I am lucky to be a member and also volunteer as a RSO to help keep it open for my use and for others. It is only a 20 mile drive to get there. That is the way things are for many of us. With the anti gun attitudes it is important we all try to keep public ranges safe. Sometimes there are crotchety old fools who may seem harsh. I try not to be that guy, but I will become him if I see unsafe situations.

    Unfortunately many of our volunteer range officers have almost no muzzleloader experience. They know about black guns but not front stuffers. I’m glad when I’m there to be able to provide training and perspective on their use and safety

    If I’m supervising the line and a routine cease fire is being called, I’ll let a shooter fire his shot before it unless it is an emergency. I do the same for unmentionables if I know someone is firing a string of shots.

    Courtesy and safety do not have to be exclusionary in most cases. It never ceases to amaze me how some folks enjoy being little dictators.
     
    Woodnbow likes this.
  20. Aug 21, 2019 #20

    Versanaut

    Versanaut

    Versanaut

    32 Cal

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Florida
    Good thread. I certainly understand the frustrations being aired here. I have also seen most of these behaviors. With each passing year muzzleloading knowledge seems to be eclipsed a bit more by the influences modern arms. Many of today's shooters have never tried or given much thought to muzzleloaders. Unfortunately, opportunities for folks to try are becoming fewer and fewer. The results? The two reactions I get from folks (INCLUDING RSOs) is fear and curiosity. I try to address both by being the example/role model for them. I went ahead and obtained my ML instructor and RSO certifications. This way, I can help to put at ease any fear, help with understanding, and, since I almost always have an audience behind my loading station watching and admiring from afar, I always invite them over, explain that I am also an instructor and would love to help them load up and take a shot for their bucket list.

    Now, all the memberships, certs, and experience in the world will not stop self appointed range dictators from piping up. I wish there were some way to reason with them. Sometimes the best I can do is fall back on advice I've given my kids since they could talk... Ask any of them, What makes a good... fisherman, marksman, teacher, driver, parent, carpenter, you name it... and they will answer 100% of the time.. "Patience is Key Dad."
     
    Woodnbow likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white