Hi guys this is an unusual rifle, plate and parts look old barrel looks new, Plate is marked just GOLCHER . The barrel is engraved Thompson. Stock seems old but re-finished. The bore is hexagonal with rifling 3/4 inches. Rifle is 42 inches and the barrel is about 27 inches. Posting some pictures.
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Golcher plate with Thompson barrel percussion rifle
- Thread starter gomask
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Such an odd little rifle, in so many ways! What is the length of pull to the front trigger? I'm wondering if it is sized for an adult or a child. I see a three-quarter stock with what appears to be a horn nose cap, and no provision for a ramrod.
You see a lot of locks out there marked Goulcher or Golcher. These were mass produced and sold to gunsmiths, and I believe they were even sold in hardware stores. I don't think the lock will help much with identification of the rifle.
Builders usually signed their name on the barrel, but with the name inside an engraved scroll or frame like that, I would not rule out the possibility that it might be an owner's name.
I'm sorry, but I don't quite follow the description of the bore: "The bore is hexagonal [six sided? Like a Whitworth?] with rifling 3/4 inches." Can you clarify that, or tell us a little more?
It is an interesting rifle, and in the photos it does look like a real antique. The absence of a ramrod or means of carrying one suggests a rifle intended to be shot from a fixed position, rather than one intended to be carried while rambling about.
Thanks for showing it! I'll look forward to reading what others have to say.
Notchy Bob
You see a lot of locks out there marked Goulcher or Golcher. These were mass produced and sold to gunsmiths, and I believe they were even sold in hardware stores. I don't think the lock will help much with identification of the rifle.
Builders usually signed their name on the barrel, but with the name inside an engraved scroll or frame like that, I would not rule out the possibility that it might be an owner's name.
I'm sorry, but I don't quite follow the description of the bore: "The bore is hexagonal [six sided? Like a Whitworth?] with rifling 3/4 inches." Can you clarify that, or tell us a little more?
It is an interesting rifle, and in the photos it does look like a real antique. The absence of a ramrod or means of carrying one suggests a rifle intended to be shot from a fixed position, rather than one intended to be carried while rambling about.
Thanks for showing it! I'll look forward to reading what others have to say.
Notchy Bob
Thanks for fast reply. I made some mistakes in description. There is no rifling and the bore is 6 sides and 0.5 inches side to side. I know very little on the subject, sorry about that. The barrel is very heavy, very thick, walls are 0.25 inches. the barrel is about 1 inch side to side, hexagonal as well. The barrel is very heavy. I don't know how to measure trigger length of pull. The bore seems to be 0.5 not 3/4. The stock was restored at one point but is old seems to be missing some brass or other inlay. The brass parts and the stock look to me antique while the barrel looks new or newer....
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Ok, unless my eyes are deceiving me, I see an octagon barrel( 8 sides) and what "appears" to be a 7 sided bore. I say "appears" because I think there are 7 grooves( rifling) that makes the round bore -it actually has- look that way. I sure ain't no expert on old guns, but that's what I am seeing.....
First of all, welcome to the Muzzleloading Forum! I didn't notice at first that you are a newer member. We are glad to have you.
I would agree with @Bucky in that I count seven "sides" in the bore. I believe these would actually be the lands between seven grooves in the barrel. Sometimes in looking in the muzzles of old rifles, the lands and grooves are not distinct, and look like flats, like yours. So, judging from the muzzle, I think your firearm is probably rifled. Seven grooves would be a very common number for older rifles. I am surprised that the bore is as large as described. If it really is 0.50", that would be fifty caliber, which was considered adequate for pretty big game, back in the day. I was thinking this might be some sort of gallery rifle, but would have expected a much smaller bore. With that weight of barrel and that bore size, I'm not sure what to make of it.
Length of pull or LOP is essentially the length of the buttstock. Smaller people need a smaller gun in order to shoot comfortably. Measuring is easy. Lay the rifle on a bench or table, then lay a yardstick on the butt stock. Align one end of the yardstick even with the deepest part of the curve in the butt plate, and measure from there to the center of the front trigger. Most old rifles will measure between 13" and 14". A normal sized modern-day male will probably want an LOP around 14". Smaller fellows, like myself, shorter than about 5'8" or so, and adults who bundle up in heavy winter clothes, will want a shorter LOP of around 13" or 13-1/2". Rifles for children may go as short as 11" or 12".
If you don't mind, I would ask that you use calipers and measure the diameter of the barrel at the breech, and measure again near the muzzle. This will tell us if the barrel is tapered. It appears to be tapered in the photos, but that may just be an illusion from the perspective.
One other thing... The sixth photo in your second post appears to show some exposed threads, where the powder drum or bolster screws into the side of the barrel, maybe due to corrosion. Yikes!!! I would not try to shoot this gun until it can be thoroughly examined by someone knowledgeable about muzzle-loading firearms.
Again, thank you for posting, and for the excellent photography. We'll see what others have to say about this unique and interesting rifle.
Notchy Bob
I would agree with @Bucky in that I count seven "sides" in the bore. I believe these would actually be the lands between seven grooves in the barrel. Sometimes in looking in the muzzles of old rifles, the lands and grooves are not distinct, and look like flats, like yours. So, judging from the muzzle, I think your firearm is probably rifled. Seven grooves would be a very common number for older rifles. I am surprised that the bore is as large as described. If it really is 0.50", that would be fifty caliber, which was considered adequate for pretty big game, back in the day. I was thinking this might be some sort of gallery rifle, but would have expected a much smaller bore. With that weight of barrel and that bore size, I'm not sure what to make of it.
Length of pull or LOP is essentially the length of the buttstock. Smaller people need a smaller gun in order to shoot comfortably. Measuring is easy. Lay the rifle on a bench or table, then lay a yardstick on the butt stock. Align one end of the yardstick even with the deepest part of the curve in the butt plate, and measure from there to the center of the front trigger. Most old rifles will measure between 13" and 14". A normal sized modern-day male will probably want an LOP around 14". Smaller fellows, like myself, shorter than about 5'8" or so, and adults who bundle up in heavy winter clothes, will want a shorter LOP of around 13" or 13-1/2". Rifles for children may go as short as 11" or 12".
If you don't mind, I would ask that you use calipers and measure the diameter of the barrel at the breech, and measure again near the muzzle. This will tell us if the barrel is tapered. It appears to be tapered in the photos, but that may just be an illusion from the perspective.
One other thing... The sixth photo in your second post appears to show some exposed threads, where the powder drum or bolster screws into the side of the barrel, maybe due to corrosion. Yikes!!! I would not try to shoot this gun until it can be thoroughly examined by someone knowledgeable about muzzle-loading firearms.
Again, thank you for posting, and for the excellent photography. We'll see what others have to say about this unique and interesting rifle.
Notchy Bob
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It looks like an old original that was rebarreled with a Thompson Center barrel.
The builder did not use the TC breeching system and installed an original, rather fancy breech plug and added a side drum for the nipple.
The original parts of the gun may date back to the 1840-1860 time frame.
The builder did not use the TC breeching system and installed an original, rather fancy breech plug and added a side drum for the nipple.
The original parts of the gun may date back to the 1840-1860 time frame.
In the opening post, with the first set of pictures, picture #7 and #8 show the barrel has a fanciful engraving of what looks like " P Thompson" . I think the post title may mislead some to think about a Thompson Center barrel. I don't believe this is the case here. Like Notchy Bob says, it could be the name of a long lost maker or perhaps a proud owner. If I had to guess, given the heft and caliber of the barrel, I would say that it has been shortened somewhere in its history. The front sight looks like a quick fix after the shortening. Not dovetailed like the rear sight but- a hole drilled, tightened with make shift bushing, and something tapped in and cut off. Rather primitive solution for a cut off barrel. Again, I am certainly no expert, but I find this very interesting.
Sorry about that. Your right. It is not a Thompson Center barrel.
I did check my references to American gun builders and it shows 6 different Thompson's. There was a George (Washington, Pa), Harry (Fremont, Ohio), John (Philadelphia) , John (Norwich, Conn.) , J.R. (Jackson, Mich) and Samuel (Columbus and Lancaster Ohio).
I did check my references to American gun builders and it shows 6 different Thompson's. There was a George (Washington, Pa), Harry (Fremont, Ohio), John (Philadelphia) , John (Norwich, Conn.) , J.R. (Jackson, Mich) and Samuel (Columbus and Lancaster Ohio).
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Well, in that case.........could that "P" that I am seeing really be a "J" ?.... Print and keyboard people like me are not really familiar with Early American cursive writing style.........
Greetings "GoMask" and please search "J. Golcher research" for some info I put up on the Golcher clan.
Welcome aboard.
BMCS
Welcome aboard.
BMCS
The barrel is an old original with 7-groove rifling that has been significantly shortened during its life. Its silver barrel plate appears to be signed "S. Thompson," and the most likely maker was Samuel Thompson who first worked in PA and then in the 1820-1850 period worked in Columbus, Ohio. That type finely shaped and engraved silver barrel plate is from an earlier era than the current stocking, probably 1820s, and suggests this current rifle is pieced together, using older parts from a good quality rifle to make a later half-stocked rifle most likely built well after the Civil War. Note the fine engraving on the trigger guard's bow and the top of the butt plate, indicating they came from a better quality rifle than this half-stocked gun. The trigger guard is improperly mounted with surface screws, rather than the expected pins, indicating the guard was reused on this gun.
The elaborate tang appears to taken from a high grade English rifle with "chased" designs where metal is actually cut away leaving raised figures, rather than the American style engraving that simply cuts lines into the metal to make figures. In the photos, the screw heads attaching the guard appear to be brass [unless the camera has colored iron screws yellow] which suggests modern screws... screws would be iron if original. Also note the cap box is not engraved, while the butt plate and guard are engraved, indicating both an age mismatch and a quality mismatch. Overall, this is a later half-stocked rifle that was made in the late 1800s utilizing a number of earlier parts from at least one, and perhaps more, higher quality rifles.
The quality and intricacy of the silver signature plate on the barrel suggests at least some of the parts were on a much earlier 1820s era rifle, probably a full-stocked Ohio flintlock rifle by Samuel Thompson with much longer barrel, probably curly maple stock, and nicely engraved furniture. Shelby Gallien
The elaborate tang appears to taken from a high grade English rifle with "chased" designs where metal is actually cut away leaving raised figures, rather than the American style engraving that simply cuts lines into the metal to make figures. In the photos, the screw heads attaching the guard appear to be brass [unless the camera has colored iron screws yellow] which suggests modern screws... screws would be iron if original. Also note the cap box is not engraved, while the butt plate and guard are engraved, indicating both an age mismatch and a quality mismatch. Overall, this is a later half-stocked rifle that was made in the late 1800s utilizing a number of earlier parts from at least one, and perhaps more, higher quality rifles.
The quality and intricacy of the silver signature plate on the barrel suggests at least some of the parts were on a much earlier 1820s era rifle, probably a full-stocked Ohio flintlock rifle by Samuel Thompson with much longer barrel, probably curly maple stock, and nicely engraved furniture. Shelby Gallien
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Picture 8477 is very concerning, not only does the powder drum have what appears to be threads exposed but there is something not right about how the breech plug/tang meets up with the barrel. they look mismatched. Disregarding what looks like brown epoxy surrounding the tang. This is a wall hanger unless diasassembled and proven to be other.
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