front lock bolt hole.............

[bob1961]

i measured the depth of my barrel channel so i could mark the hole location to drill through the stock between the barrel and ram rod hole fer the lock bolt....well the ram rod hole might be a little high in that part of the stock and blocks the bolt hole :cursing: ....how or what's a good way to plug the hole and redrill it a little higher....i can notch the bottom of the barrel a 1/32" inch +/- to clear the bolt if i have to without weakening the barrel....under the lock plate is no big deal with a plug but the off side might show the repair unless i go with a big enough plate to cover the plug hole repair....any thoughts or ideas are most welcome :v .........bob

 

[eph289]

Is it posible for you to make a little round scraper on the end of a metal rod, that you could reach down into the ram rod hole and scape the side of the hole opposite the barrel.Thus giving you room for your screw and your ram rod.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

WB,
Don't sweat the small stuff, sides you and me are doing just like the original gsmiths, makin mistakes. I assume you are talkin about the lock plate hole. Put some threads in the hole and install a machine screw with it cut off slightly longer than the plate thickness. Peen the screw slightly to fill the hole more tight. Trim off the screw and polish. If you do a good brown job on the lock no one will know but you.
Flintlocks Forever
Lar

 

[bob1961]

i haven't drilled the lock plate yet....it's the screw hole through the stock that i'm talking bout....thought i drilled the hole through the stock high enough but i guess i didn't....

eph....i guess i could try enlargeing the hole on top to move the hole higher above the ram rod :v ..........bob

 

[FASTFRED]

I would plug the hole and redrill it AFTER the lock is in place/inleted...Often the lock mainspring will be in the way and you have to locate the front long bolt to miss it, hit the plate, and go between the barrel channel and ram rod hole...Sometimes the lock needs to be tipped a little also, depends on the whole barrel, lock, breech layout...It is better, if there is such a thing, to have the bolt hole into the ramrod hole verses the channel as you can taper the last few inches of the rod to get around the bolt...This is where a 8X32 lock bolt works well verses a 10X 32 or larger... :winking: ...The Best...The Lizard...

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

:hmm:
WB,
I guess I fail to see your problem then. Why are you worried about a hole that will be under a finsh sideplate?
:thumbsup:
Flintlocks Forever
Lar

 

[shortstring]

You could move the hole up with a course needle file. The side plate will be at least .400 or so which would give you the ability to fudge it up an entire hole without it showing.

Some other thoughts:
There are more than a few front lock bolts with a half moon file cut out of them for the ramrod to slide thru. They typically have a mark on the head so they can be properly lined up.

I've seen screws in the front of side plates that were in fact just wood screws that held the plate on & never went clear thru to the lock plate. It would probably be nice to have a decent inlet job on the lock to get away with this stunt but it could work. Double flint shotguns have no front screw. Some do have a hook affair that supports the front but many have nothing.

I suppose that nothing says you couldn't go all the way down to 6/32 for clearance. It would be plenty enough to pull the lock in good.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Birddog6]

Can you go with t 6-32 front screw and a tapered RR ?

Stick a drill bit thru the hole & then see if a 5/16" RR will pass by it, or taper your RR and see if it will pass it. If so, that is what I would do in this case. Go with the smaller dia screw & a tapered RR. You can get the 6-32 shaft lockbolt from MBS.

Some cut thru the barrel channel down into the RR hole & deepend it, but that is allot of work just for a dil depth sometimes.

Also I have used a 8-32 or 10-32 screw before & stuck a drill up in there & drilled a halfmoon groove thru the screw. Remove it & slightly enlarge the groove & ya put a lil unnoticable notch at the bottom of the screw head so the notch is down, the groove is aligned to pass the RR.
:thumbsup:

PS: If I am choosing a precarve stock, I like the ones that have the test hole in the barrel channel at the breech, as you can see exactly how much wood you have there for the bolt to pass thru.

 

[bob1961]

thanks guys....i think i'll go with trying to move the hole up a little higher first....i don't have a screw plate fer the off side yet so i have options there also....the screw is a 8-32 i think i'll stay with that size as the rear screw hole is drilled and tapped in the lock already :thumbsup: :v ..............bob

 

[Birddog6]

Just for thought..... I usually use a dif size on the front bolt & rear bolt. This way the customer can't get them mixed up intstalling them. Sometimes the rear bolt is longer than the front bolt, thus if they are the same dia, the guy could could put the rear one in the front hole & if he is Yacking rather than watching what he is doing, he could push the frizzen spring out & snap it off.......... :shake:
By making the rear one a largerdia., it will not thread into the front hole & eliminates the idiot moment.

So lots of times I have the rear a 10-32 and the front bolt a 8-32 & in instances a 6-32 on the front bolt.

Also, keep in mind the lock & sideplate must look right & be parallel to the rifle. If you cant it up or down to miss the RR hole & it is not parallel, it will look like H. (IMHO) I would go with a fake front lockbolt rather than have one canted & not parallel. T/C has used one lockbolt for ? 40 years & had no issues. I have seen Alot of rifle with one bolt & no problems. Have 2 here with fake front bolts with no problems. Now all of them I have built had a front bolt, but as I said, rather than cant one & have iit looking weird or not parallel, I would go without one rather than do that.

Good luck !

:thumbsup:

 

[Black Hand]

How about tapering your ramrod? It may be enough to clear the front lock bolt.

 

[Birddog6]

You could plug the hole on both sides & redrill, keeping in mind you can only go up so much so the sideplate will cover it. Same way on the lockplate. If the lock is inlet, it is gonna stay there, so you have little room to go up there & the screw not show.

Put the frizzen spring on & take a exacto blade & turn it over & scribe the outside of the frizzen spring on the lockplate. Now put the screw on the plate on the outside & scribe around it & get it as high as possible but not outside of the frizzen spring scribe line. Now use a centerpunch & punch the center, then drill a pilot hole so the drill don't walk on ya, install the lock, clamp on the sideplate, using a drillpoint, drill the hole from the lockplate to the sideplate 3/4 way, turn it over & drill back 3/4 way & you should have a thru hole.

With the drill bit in the hole see if a std RR or a tapered RR will pass the bolt. If so go 1 index size larger bit Up To the lockplate (but not drilling it. Now take the tap & tap it Thru the sideplate into the locplate. Put the screw in & now do the rear lockbolt the same. Scribe the sideplate that you have slightly beveled the edges on & scribe around the sideplate. Remove the screws & sideplate & take a lead pencel & darken the scribe line & cut Inside the sideplate & inlet it. Now if your sideplate will not cover the plugged hole in the front, go to the hobby shop & get some 1/8" brass plate & lay the old sideplate over it & drill the holes, then slip a bolt in each hole & then scribe the plate. Take the old plate off & no cut it out just a tad larger at the front & slowly feather it back to normal at the other places.

Another option is a hidden lug on the inside of the lockplate. I had a rifle that the RR hole was dead center & really gonna be tought to miss without canting things. I silver soldered a lug inside the lockplate on the end of it & had a blind hole at the top of the lug the screw went into. That worked well & I am trying to find a photo of it. Will post it if I find it.

 

[bob1961]

thanks birddog....i think i will be ok moving the hole up....since i'm using steel furniture i have an old hand saw i'll cut up and make a side plate that will cover the holes i have on that side now, that way it won't be canted and parell with the lock....might be a little bigger then normal, but hey it's my rifle and it will be one of the home made parts i will have made :v .............bob

 

[Birddog6]

Well, if you move it up & enlarge the sideplate a tad & feather it in, nobody will notice it being a tad larger there. I have made dozens of sideplates & bowed them more, less, longer on end, shorter, lots of dif ways to make it fit the flow of the rifle. As long as it is not a Obvious change it will pass without reconization for most onlookers.

As for the hand saw, may be hard to work with. Usually hard & warps easily if ya aneal it. You can go to Lowes or Home Depot & for $5 get a piece of mild flat iron & save yourself some hard filing & etc. Or any welding shope will probably give ya a piece out of the scrap for this. Piece of 1/16 - 1/8 angle iron will work & cut it out of that.

 

[LRB]

There is much debate on the subject of the necessity of the front bolt. To look correct, it should have one, but as to the acual need of it, most cap guns have only one. A flintlock is much less violent than a cap lock as the shock is mostly confined within the lock itself. With the hammer all the way down, a caplock causes a scissor effect between the hammer and the upper frontal portion of the lock plate, causeing the wood over that portion to be under stress. Many old caplocks having only one screw, and as I said, this is the norm for sporting caplocks, are found to have that section of wood either cracked, or gone. This is much less common in flint guns because the scissor effect is not there, making the front screw pretty much unnecessary as far as strength, depending much on the size of the lock. A large heavy military flint gun probably would benefit with more than one screw, but a common hunting gun should not acually need it. Some makers, including myself, often use a fake bolt head, as Birddog6 mentioned, rather than have to deal with postioning a real bolt to line up properly. I use a standard bolt that I cut short and hand thread with a file to tie down the front of the side plate, but as suggested, a bolt head merely soldered on the plate is even easier.

 

[bob1961]

birddog....i have some 3/32" flat steel plate somewhere come to think of it that i will use fer the sideplate instead of the saw metal....

wick....the more i'm planing it out in my head the more it's looking to be an easy fix using the whole bolt....i looked over my stock real good the next day, after i went running away from it when it first happened :rotf: , and found out that when i drilled the hole the bit followed the ram rod hole curve and drifted downward, it looks like i can move the hole up easy enough....thanks guys :v ...............bob

 

[bob1961]

fixed the bolt by redrilling a new hole a little higher then the first one....put the ram rod in and i can see through the bolt hole....i re-measured the depth of the barrel channel to make sure of the highest i can drill a new bolt hole....drilled the lock plate then clamped it in the stock to use it as a guide fer the drill bit....i got it drilled straight through this time, and the old holes on the side plate side should be covered by an enlarged side plate easily....once again thanks guys :hatsoff: :v .............bob

 

[Zonie]

See?
The skill one uses to hide their mistakes is a sign of a good builder.

We all make mistakes but to be able to mask it without it being obvious makes the difference.

zonie