Flying comercial with black powder

[deseeb2001]

A couple weeks ago I had a hard time getting more than one bottle of pre-mixed infant formula through security. You want to try to take what? :haha: I'm trying to think of a civilian firearm that uses 20mm ammo and I'm coming up with a blank. What are we claiming these rounds are for?

 

[R.M.]

12 gauge shells have a good volume.

 

[arctichomesteader]

Most 20mm ammo available to civilians is non-explosive (solid projectile). Explosive rounds generally are NFA regulated and $200 tax and registration for each round, and not many dealers will sell them...

 

[Norinco]

Yeah, I admit that 20mm rounds may be a bit excessive, and .50 BMG would be cheaper and draw less attention. Each .50 BMG case should hold enough powder for two shots from the flintlock.

You could buy those dummy .50 BMG rounds at like $5 a round (roughly the same as a live round). I think I still have some dummies left over from when they were $1 a round. Just take a hammer and tap the case neck to loosen the crimp by stretching the brass. The bullet would be loose enough to pull out by hand.

Most 20mm ammo available to civilians is non-explosive (solid projectile). Explosive rounds generally are NFA regulated and $200 tax and registration for each round, and not many dealers will sell them...

Yep. The 20mm rounds available to civilians are the training type with inert projectile. They are blue tipped.

There are civilian 20mm rifles such as this one. Because the rifle themselves are over .50cal in bore, they are NFA items.

 

[gearheart]

Going out of state to hunt would imply hunting in unfamiliar territory and so the use of a guide's service would be strongly recommended. Why not let the guide know what you need and have him round it up for you. Work arounds to try to avoid the law can leave you sitting in a large pile of grief and you are only saving a few dollars on a hunt that costs way too much to mess it up..

 

[Zonie]

to all, in general:

The more I think about it the more I think I was wrong to suggest using a .50 BMG cartridge.

Let's look at this from the aspect of the laws about taking explosives or a explosive device on board a commercial air plane.

Doing either of these things will get you a long term in a Federal prison. No if's and's or but's about it.

Whether you think the Government is right or wrong doesn't matter. They have proclaimed black powder IS an EXPLOSIVE, so it is.

If a person were to load up a shotgun shell, a .50 BMG or a 20mm cartridge with black powder and if, for any reason the projectile were to slip out of place and allow any of that black powder to leak out into your luggage and it was detected by the guards or a sniffing dog you would be instantly locked up and charged with a Felony.
Missing your flight would be the least of your worries.
Your family, your job, your house, your future not to mention your hunt would all go to hell in an instant.

If you are not going to have a guide and you don't know anyone in the area you intend to hunt your only hope it to find a gun shop in the area that sells black powder. You might be able to find a gun shop in the towns BBB listings and call them. If they don't have it you could ask them if you could ship them some for you to pick up when you get there.

If you do have a guide ask them to get some black powder for you or ship some black powder to them after paying the Haz Mat fee.
Most guides will gladly help you with your problem.

In any case, stay within the law.

 

[skunkskinner]

Glad to see you rethink your earlier statement Zonie, I was getting kind of worried.


Pipe bombs are never a good idea.

 

[Norinco]

Going out of state to hunt would imply hunting in unfamiliar territory and so the use of a guide's service would be strongly recommended. Why not let the guide know what you need and have him round it up for you. Work arounds to try to avoid the law can leave you sitting in a large pile of grief and you are only saving a few dollars on a hunt that costs way too much to mess it up..

Sorry, I'm used to simple whitetail deer and squirrel hunts. I'm sure if I could afford big game hunts, I would want a guide. Going feral hog hunting later in the year down south is about as exotic as my hunts are going to get for a long time.

 

[gearheart]

The OP had stated going to Colorado for elk. That's big game I think. I am not aware of the laws in Colorado, but here in Ontario a guide is required on big game hunts by out of province hunters, so I assumed it might be the same or not too different there. Required or not it would still be an excellent idea.

 

[deseeb2001]

I did a quick look through the regulations brochure from the Colorado Fish & Game site http://wildlife.state.co.us/RulesRegs/RegulationsBrochures/BigGame.htm, but didn't see an nonresident guide requirement. I just did a quick search through it, though, so it might be listed elsewhere if one is required. I would imagine that this aspect of the hunt has (hopefully) already been looked in to :hatsoff:

 

[Waterman]

I think that all the possible ways suggested to carry BP are crazy!!!

As some posters have pointed out, the legal ramifications are incredible.

As others have pointed out, you can have it shipped to your hunting destination.

Here's the way I look at it: Select motel of arrival based on its willingness to accept your order. Buy powder and have shipped to said address. Let's face it, you will spend two nights (arrival and departure) in a hotel of some sorts.

Enjoy hunt, tell all your BP friends to advertise hotel/motel, and have fun!

Cheers, Bill

 

[sepiatone]

Back in 2004 my wife and I were went on our honeymoon. The day before, I was shooting my flintlock with a couple of friends. When my wife and I arrived at the airport the next day, we did the curbside check in. TSA swabbed our luggage at which time the machine came up "explosives." We were immediately separated from each other, handed over our ID's, and searched. Meanwhile the TSA had our clothing and other articles layed out on the curb...including my wife's undergarmets :redface: . I had packed the same boots that I was shooting in the day before and believe this was the reason for setting it off.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Arrange to ship powder to your Outfitter, or Guide, or someone where you intend to hunt, using UPS or some other shipping service. Obey the law. You will have enough problems with sniffers alerting to shoes, clothing, boots, bags, etc to even the HINT of BLACK POWDER residue that you should not expect to be able to send any kind of BP through commercial carriers.

I hate to be a prune about this, and I don't like the laws. But, the best advice any lawyer can give you is to OBEY THE LAW, or find some other means of getting to your hunting site. I know there are a couple of lawyers who also frequent this site, and we have all been quiet, hoping that common sense will prevail.

Mr. History's experience is REALITY, folks.

If I were flying and wanted to transport my MLer, it would be in a case- preferably a hard case-- with the cock removed, to disable the gun and make it much less attractive to thieves. I might also remove the frizzen, or the entire lock, to prevent it from being broken in shipping. I would put the cock and frizzen( or entire lock) in my luggage, along with my tools needed to reassemble the gun, and alert airport personnel at baggage check in that it is there. I would use pre-measured powder charges, or take a fixed powder measure, washed out and dried to remove even the odor of BP, to measure my charges on arrival at the hunting site.

 

[fleener]

Please dont fly with black powder or caps or offer them into transportation by a common carrier without it being declared. Not only do you have to worry about TSA, the USDOT has jurisdiction of the transportation of haz mat.

I have flown quite a bit, and my bags are almost always opened and inspected by TSA. I have also been swabed and tested positive for powder. Been pulled out of line and had closer inspection by security.

I can honestly say I have always been treated with the greatest respect and professionalism.

We dont like the added security, but we also dont like terrorism.

snapper

 

[paulvallandigham]

When you turn all airplanes into " Free Fire Zones for any terrorist with a gun", as we have done to military bases, and all our schools, with well-intended, but terribly misguided laws, there can be no wonder that airplanes are frequent targets of terrorists. I don't worry about the security at American Airports: I do worry about what is actually going on at airports outside this country, where we have NO control.

Face it, America, and Americans are big targets. Just look at all the celebrations that took place in the West Bank, Gaza, and many other African and Middle East states when the news of 9-11 went out.

We would be a lot safer if people who have been issued CC permits were allowed to travel with their firearms, too. That way, the goblins would not know who, or how many people are armed. The Israelis have more than proven this to be the case.

Sorry, but the air Marshalls are fairly easy to spot, not by their sex, race, or dress, but by the way the flight staff treats these people differently than other passengers. The Flight crews have to know when Marshalls are on a flight, and how many, and where these people are seated. Their behavior towards these people is unconscious, and not a deliberate act that they can easily control. The average citizen may not notice, but criminals and terrorists do. Some of us who train others in self defense also know how to look for these " tells".