FFF vs. FF

[Cutfingers]

Have been shooting 70 grs of FFF in my 62 smoothie very successfully but have several pounds of FF that I would like to get rid of. What would be the equivalent load in FF to the 70 grs FFF? Or,is there a previous link that already has this information?

 

[Homesteader]

From what I've read here on the forum you would increase the amount of FF by 10% to 15% more than you use of FFF.

 

[PaulN/KS]

I use 80g of FF or 70 of FFF and it all seems to be about the same...

 

[tg]

You might want to try mixing the two 1/2 and 1/2 works well, just cut back volume by half the normal amount, I used to mix it in a cardboard Quaker Oats container.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Tg; Are you being serious, or just joking? If mixing the powder was a good thing, Why would the company go to the bother of screening the powders in the first place? Have you ever chrongraphed " Mixed " powder loads? They are all over the map!

I do not recommend EVER mixing powders. Its a stupid, unsafe practice, that leads to even more dangerous unsafe powder handling practices.The barrels I have seen blown out are often the result of this kind of practice.

The range officers at my club stopped a guy from loading a ball down his barrel after they heard him tell someone he could not remember which powder he used in the gun, and the only powder measure he had was a fixed measure
that threw 200 grains. He actually did put 200 grains of FFFFg powder down the barrel of his .45 CVA rifle, and was about to put a PRB down when they stopped him. He came really close to being kicked off the range, and out of the club. He was only allowed to stay when he agreed to be supervised by one of the range offices until he understood the dangers inherent in using black powder. I think he showed up to one more shoot, and then we never saw him again. I hope he was as happy as he made the rest of us by going.

If you can't use some of the powder, find someone who has powder the size you use and trade can for can. I use both FFFg and FFg powder in various guns so I always have a few pounds of both on hand.

 

[tg]

"I do not recommend EVER mixing powders. Its a stupid, unsafe practice, that leads to even more dangerous unsafe powder handling practices.The barrels I have seen blown out are often the result of this kind of practice."

I usually ignore yuour pseudo intellectuall tirades, but will respond to this one, quite a few folks have found this mix to work well in ML's The Mad Monk did some testing and found no significant seperation of the powder granules in this mix thru screening tests,it can result in a lower spike pressure and also reduced fouling, typicaly it is used in the .54-69 bore range, if you do not know who he is, you either flunked or did not take ML 101, and he next time you use the term stupid have a reflective devise close by as to verify a face on the terminology. This mix option was covered quite well probably ten years ago on several-mail lists when most of the participants actually had some depth of knowledge about the subject.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

60 to 70 grains of FFg is the usual load in a twenty bore. Even less with light shot loads.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Tg: Just the response I expected from you. Well, I do know the Mad Monk, and I also know what the chronograph tells me. You have to be very careful how you mix the two powders, and then how they are stored before use. For that reason, I never tell anyone in the open to go ahead and mix powders. You don't know who is reading your stuff.

I remain very sceptical, because of what I have seen, with powder mixing, as to both consistency and accuracy. I have worked it both ways, mixing small amounts of the two powders, and then screening both 2Fg and 3Fg powders to get a uniform powder. In every case, the screened powders gave more consistent velocities with both grades of powder than did the mixed powder loads. That produced lower SDVs in both cases, too.

So, stuff it. I didn't call you stupid, I told everyone that advocating mixing powders is Stupid. If you can't tell the difference, maybe you do have a problem. :youcrazy:

 

[tg]

"maybe you do have a problem."

The only problem I had is now resolved as you are back on my ignore list, others may wish to listen to your long winded post containing little of merit but the lack of valid imput has worn thin with me.

 

[Cutfingers]

My thanks to those who responded without getting personally involved. The information you gave was exactly what I requested. It's all about learning and increasing our knowledge and skill, not about personality conflicts.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Tg; Gosh! How will my life ever go on ???

If you read that last answer of your, where you clarified that these mixed loads are used in Large Bore rifles , That information should have been in your first post, and not just your flippant, why don't you just mix the two powders? statement. In large bore rifles, pressures are going to be lower regardless of the powder used, and wider variations in velocity will result in less deviation of POI than in small caliber guns. But, you didn't bother to clarify your first statement. You didn't even ask Cutfingers what gun he is going to use the powder in.

That is why I asked if you could possibly be serious in recommending what can be a very dangerous practice. Personally, I would not use mixed powders in anything smaller than a 12 gauge shotgun, loaded with mild loads. And I am not even advocating that practice here. Someone might think that if its good enough to use in a 12 gauge, its good enough to use in something smaller, or that its okay to mix other powders, like 3F and 4F. From the screening I have done of powders, there is enough 4F and finer powder already found in 3Fg to make it worthwhile to screen 3Fg powder with every new can.

When target shooting, over a chronograph, mixed powders surprise us with a " flyer ", and the velocity reading clearly shows what happened to spoil the group. Since accuracy is so important to ethical hunting, as well as target shooting, I see NO advantage, and a lot of disadvantages to using mixed powders. And that is for shooters who know what they are doing!

 

[roundball]

"I do not recommend EVER mixing powders. Its a stupid, unsafe practice, that leads to even more dangerous unsafe powder handling practices.The barrels I have seen blown out are often the result of this kind of practice."

I usually ignore yuour pseudo intellectuall tirades, but will respond to this one, quite a few folks have found this mix to work well in ML's The Mad Monk did some testing and found no significant seperation of the powder granules in this mix thru screening tests,it can result in a lower spike pressure and also reduced fouling, typicaly it is used in the .54-69 bore range, if you do not know who he is, you either flunked or did not take ML 101, and he next time you use the term stupid have a reflective devise close by as to verify a face on the terminology. This mix option was covered quite well probably ten years ago on several-mail lists when most of the participants actually had some depth of knowledge about the subject.

TG, you're 100% correct...there is absolutely nothing of consequence about mixing granulations of blackpowder...its all the same powder, just differnt kernel sizes...to say nothing of the fact that duplex loads are well established and proven approaches.

Furthermore, it's been proven that even a can originally labeled as Goex 2F or 3F when originally screened and filled at the plant, has a significant change to the kernel size mix inside those cans due to all the kernels that get broken into smaller sizes from the jarring & vibrations from activities of packing / shipping / loading / unloading / handling, etc. That resultant "mix" of kernel sizes of course, causes no problems what so ever...ie: a can of Goex 3F is really a blend of 3F & 4F by the time it leaves the LA plant and ends up sitting on a shooting bench in somebody's home town across the country.

In order for people to fully understand real issues in life like these, people have to have real actual hands on experience with these things before attempting to spread chaf as if it was gospel. It may be that some people overhear something about some "smokeless powders being potentially dangerous if mixed", then due to a lack of actual knowledge of blackpowder they make the leap that its dangerous to mix "any" powders...horse hockey of course...blackpowder duplex and layered loads are not new.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

If you're presently running 70 grains of 3f, then 80 grains of 2f should be close to the same result in terms of velocity, who knows how the change may affect pattern, only shooting can tell that.
I see no reason to deliberately mix powder granulation's but I also see no reason to think it would be dangerous. As Roundball pointed out the powder in a can is already a mix and if carried around in a horn or flask the granules get broken down even further. I bought a couple of brass screens to sort powder and obtain all the 4f priming powder I can use by screening 2&3f.