Extra looooong rifles, anyone?

[StevePrice2]

Just wondering if anyone on here has flintlocks measuring over 60 inches in OAL? Or even in the 58 to 60 inch range?

Why do I ask? Well, as I plan, design and shop for my first flintlock, one of specs on it will be a 42 to 44 inch swamped barrel probably a Colerain in .50 cal. So with that in mind and if the decision is finalized I end up with afew questions.

First off I'm 6'2" currently weighing around 170# so the long barrel and OAL of the rifle shouldn't be an issue.

What I'd like to know is what comes with the territory of owning such a beast? Obviously, loading, firing and cleaning techniques will be part of the learning curve. The ins and outs of such have prompted me to ask. Also does a 44 incher foul more or less? Is there a range rod readily available for cleaning? I've never looked before. Does the long barrel length dramatically change shooting techniques such as a notably longer follow through after firing. I realize that getting a flintlock will require some more refined techiques to maximize the accuracy and a looooooong barrel must add to that as well.

those with such guns would you chime in, please? It could help me decide on my barrel length.

thanks,
Steve

 

[trent/OH]

It may not come into play, but a long barrel can be a nuisance to transport. You may have a little trouble finding a cleaning rod also, but it can be done.

 

[jimmytheshank]

:haha:

Funny you should mention that. I have a Late Lancaster with a 44" inch barrel and a LOTM rifle with a 50" barrel being built for me right now, both made by Oldarmy.
With the 44" I havent really had any accuracy issues, and cleanup is still relatively simple. I guess the main thing for me is finding a long enough ramrod and range rod for such a long barrel as the LOTM rifle has. There's other guys who can give you better info. as regards loads and tech stuff. But the biggest problem I have with the Lancaster, and pretty soon with the "Killdeer" rifle, since it'll be about 66" long over all, will be finding room in my Jeep to transport the thing. :hmm:

 

[Elnathan]

44" is pretty normal for me (5'10"). I don't really have a lot of experience with shorter guns, so some of your questions I can't really answer, but I will say that I have found a 44" barrel much easier to load than a 24" barrel (you can hold it in the crook of your arm while measuring powder, etc. A shorter gun has to be leaned up against something to free up both hands). I doubt fouling is going to be much different. You will need a longer hold-through, but the tiny fraction of a second extra to allow the bullet to clear the barrel is unlikely to be noticable :wink: You do get the advantage of a longer sight radius.

"Looong" is over 48". 44" is "moderate." :grin:

 

[hanshi]

There's no advantage I can see to having a barrel over 42" - 44". Longer will be more difficult to transport, handle without hitting something (or someone), finding rods for, etc. Plus they look funny (yeah, I know, who cares?) to me. Balance is a compromise and a 44" swamped barrel should be a joy to handle and fire.

I'm 5' 41/2" and have a 42" EV which I shoot very well. It is a bit awkward at times. My favorite is a 36" Lancaster with my others being 38" which is about perfect for me. A longer barrel won't help ballistics and may even work against you with normal charges (powder likely consumed in the first 38" - 44"). Friction can slow the prb down after that. These are just my thoughts on the matter but I do think it's a very individual decision and one should always try to satisfy oneself.

 

[paulvallandigham]

IMHO, you are not going to like the really long barrels. Barrel length needs to be adjusted for balance if you intend to shoot the gun off-hand. How a gun balances between your hands when you grip it naturally is more important than barrel length.

You want to know what is involved with really long barreled guns?? Well, finding the barrel stock long enough to make the gun is difficult, and it will cost you a lot more money. Often, a smith has to weld two pieces of barrel together to make a 60 inch or longer barrel. It can be done, and the seam in hardly visible, and the gun will shoot well.

You will need a longer piece of wood for the stock, of course. Finding that can also be time consuming and costly. Then there is finding long ramrod material. And a Long Gun case. And, when you have all that, you have to figure out where you can store it, and how to transport it in your car or truck where its visible to potential thieves.

Being new to the sport, I can only recommend that you visit lots of ranges, and ask permission of shooters to mount their guns to your shoulder to see how the various length barrels, and weights, and calibers, FEEL to you.

ONLY with MLERS do we talk about a 30 inch barrel being " SHORT". Only in MLERS do we even question whether a 36 inch barrel is " LONG ENOUGH????"

I had the unique opportunity to examine an original 1770 vintage Tower Armory DB 12 Gauge shotgun with Flint actions, or course, and 36 inch tubes. When I saw my friend take it out of the case, I thought the gun would be terribly muzzle heavy, and would not balance well at all. I was proved instantly wrong.

The barrels were tapered and very thin at the muzzle. The butt plate was just a hair short of 3 inches wide, made of heavy cast brass, It added counterweight to the two barrels, and the balance point of the gun was right under the forearm of the stock, where your hand naturally held the stock. The gun did weight about 10 lbs, but it swung naturally and easily, side to side, and up and down. I was delighted to be SO WRONG about the gun! The Gun also had the military style sling swivels on the front of the trigger guard, and then under one of the ramrod pipes. NO doubt at all that this gun was made in the King's Armory at the Tower of London, or as to hits age.

The point of all this is that you need to consider the balance of any off-hand gun, rifle or shotgun( or fowler) more than the length of the barrel when choosing a gun. I have held 42 inch barreled rifles that were so muzzle heavy I checked the muzzle cap to see if it was made of LEAD! I have held other 42 in. barreled rifles, particularly those with swamped barrels, that were light in the hands, and balanced well.

My long gun has a 39 inch barrel. Its a bit muzzle heavy, and I would choose a 37 inch barrel for a .50 caliber rifle were I to build another one. But, like a lot of shooters, I have gotten used to the gun I have, and appreciate that extra weight up front when my sights are settling down on an approaching deer. :hatsoff:

 

[jimmytheshank]

By the way Steve,

My Lancaster with the 44" barrel is so light, it swings and carries very well. The difference really is the swamped barrel,....AND the maker. The swamped barrel takes a LOT of weight off the gun for starters. I owned a Traditions Pennsylvania rifle and a Lehigh with a 46" barrel. Both guns had straight barrels on them. Talk about muzzle heavy. Having a rifle with a swamped barrel is a world of difference. It also depends on the builder. Some take off just enough wood to balance beautifully, and some leave enough to make you think your holding a howitzer.
Personally, I think you'll like the 44" barrel,it works well, it's a little longer than most, but if anything, it'll add to the looks of your rifle. They didnt call them longrifles for nothing. :thumbsup:

 

[hawk]

I have a .54 and .62 with 46" barrels smoothrifles ,both I find handy and hunt them in thick bush of northern ontario ,for both moose and grouse.

 

[Coot]

I have three guns with 42 and 44 inch barrels. They are swamped or fowler and all balance just fine. TOW has 48" hickory rods and it is easy enough to find 48" steel or brass rod to make your own range rods. They don't seem to foul any more or less than any other lengths. Personally I like the long barrels & seldom look at shorter ones anymore. There are three downsides to the "long" barrel guns. (Mine are not long - others are short :wink: )

Downside # 1 - they will not fit into commercial hard cases which seem to max out at 62" LOA which to me means a max 60" LOA gun to fit inside.

Downside # 2 - even with a 9 foot ceiling, it is easy to hit the ceiling when cleaning (honest honey, the cat must be walking on the ceiling again).

Downside # 3 - I have to fold 1/2 the rear seat down to get them in the car.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Just wondering if anyone on here has flintlocks measuring over 60 inches in OAL? Or even in the 58 to 60 inch range?

Cripes, I have barrels longer than that! :haha:

 

[jimmytheshank]

Yes, yes you do. I saw a pic of someone holding up a buccaneer's musket with a 6 foot barrel once. Was that one of yours Mike?

 

I have a TVM early Virginia with a 54 inch barrel, not quite five feet overall. My first flint long rifle, and I love it. I doubt that the extra length makes a significant difference in follow-through, but it sure does help having that long sight radius, especially with old eyes. The only realy problem I have is the ramrod hitting the roof on the range :grin: have to slant the rifle to load or swab it out.

I use an old GI 50 cal machine gun cleaning rod for a range rod. I can add or take out sections to fit the barrel length. (all my front stuffers are .50 cal). I made a muzzle protector from a .44 mag case. Drilled the back end out to make a slip fit on the rod; the case rim stops cartridge at the muzzle. I doubt that you can find one of these surplus cleaning rods nowadays -- got mine many years ago. However, October Country has a newly made rod patterned after the GI rod that may work. Have never actually seen one, though.

You will like the long rifle :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

My French Fusil is around 58" long with a 44" barrel, I have experienced no difference in any of the shooting/loading/cleaning functions than there was with a 42" barrel or a 39" barrel, I hunt in thick brush and have no problems. Long wood or synthetic rods are easily available a long gun with the correct barrel profile and the wood taken down can weight as little as 6 lbs most will run from 7-8 lbs depending on type of gun they are beautiful guns as were the long guns of old, I would not hesitate to have a 46" or 48" barrel on a gun in the future.Many feel the need to cut down a 42" barrel so I guess it is an individual taste thing though I often wonder how many of the short barrel advocates have given the long guns an honest trial.If one is looking to having an accurate reproduction of some guns the long barrel is a must to be proper, but that depends on the PC/HC factor one strives for.

 

[tg]

"Cripes, I have barrels longer than that"

Hey Mike, do you arc weld or forge weld when you make the long barrels and have to splice two sections together????????????

 

[Homesteader]

I received my custom trade gun / fowler from Roy Stroh about a year ago. It's got a 48" tapered octagon to round smoothbore barrel. When I put the butt on the ground it's almost as tall as me (5' 10"), but I have no problem loading or handling it. The long sight radius is fantastic, and I swear that the long tapered barrel handles shot like it's choked. (Purely anecdotal, but I'll stand by it.)

It's impressed me so much that I've commissioned a rifle from Roy with a 44" swamped barrel. And I'd have gone longer if I could have!

My previous smokepoles were a 33" rifled flintlock, a short land pattern Brown Bess, a 29" double barrel shotgun, a Sharp's rifle, and a Sharp's carbine. I'm now a convert to the "longer is better" school!

BTW, you can see my commercial English Trade Gun (with French influence) on Roy's web site, and pictures of me with that same gun in the Photo's section of this site. Might give you some more perspective.

 

[John Wasmuth]

My old H. Leman is 58 inches overall length with a 45 inch barrel. Its heavy, real heavy to carry around all day.

Never in my life have I ever seen two pieces of barrel stock welded together, never.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Yes, yes you do. I saw a pic of someone holding up a buccaneer's musket with a 6 foot barrel once. Was that one of yours Mike?

Probably, I have built probably around 1/2 dozen Bucaneers and Hudson Valley fowlers with 60" barrels. I have a Hudson valley Fowler ready to be built with a 72" barrel in the corner.

 

[Mike Brooks]

"Cripes, I have barrels longer than that"

Hey Mike, do you arc weld or forge weld when you make the long barrels and have to splice two sections together????????????

Uh......no. :slap:

 

[Leon/Iowa]

I have two rifles with 42" barrels. Both are in the 58", OAL range.
I also have never heard of welding two barrels together, other then in a side by side or an over under. Must be something new coming out. Leon

 

[jimmytheshank]

If it's new, I hope it dont catch on. :shake:
The barrel for my LOTM rifle was one solid piece made by Ed Rayl, and he said he keeps long blanks, just for such an occasion.