Equipment, Safety for ML-Hunting

[PreglerD]

Hello colleges, I have asked this question in another topic but nobody noticed I guess. So as I try my first steps in ML-hunting in Germany I have a few questions.

1. Which equipment is used especially for loading?
2. How is loaded(flask, horn, glas tubes)?
3. how is deloaded ?
4. Are there safety regulations by law?

thank you for answering and sorry for the silly questions.

Greetings from Bavaria, Germany

Kirrmeister

 

[ronrryan]

I don't think ANY questions are silly when you're starting out. Many folks have FAR more experience than I but here goes a start. (1) Carry powder for reloads in a film canister or small plastic tube container, or pill bottle. I would not use glass, in case of a slip and fall. (2) Unloading (or deloading) at days end, if no shot is made, gets differing opinions. I used to shoot out the ball, clean up well, and re-load the next morning. Others just brush the pan, plug the venthole, and re-prime the next day. I am sure othjers will "pitch in" with more advice, Good smoke, ron in FL

 

[bramble]

I second the notion of there being no bad questions. The one you think is silly and don't ask may well get you hurt. I shoot a .50 percussion. I use a powder horn for carrying my powder and use an adjustable brass powder measure both to measure the load and dump it in the barrel. A ball starter is a necessity. It allows you to use enough force to start the the ball without risking a broken ramrod. I'm not real sold on prepared loads, preferring to stick with my same loading routine (horn, measure, load). To unload I prefer to fire the round. I think it was Stumpkillers advice to discharge the round into a safe object (like a stump) serving both to unload the firearm and give you real life practice in the wild (meaning that you have to pick an object, judge the distance and make the shot.)
Good luck,
bramble

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you use a flask, or powder horn, or some other container, load the powder into it using a funnel, from the cannister, or plastic bottle it comes in from the manufacturer. Goex comes in cans, and you can buy caps to fit the can where someone has soldered onto the cap a brass cartridge casing, with the base removed, and a hole cut into the cap so that the brass casing, with its bottle neck, becomes a pouring spout for pouring powder from the can into a powder measure. Since you are in Europe and buying Swiss, or Wano powders, I believe they come in plastic bottles, and the cap idea is not going to work for you. So get a small funnel made either of steel, aluminum, Brass, or plastic, and designate it for this purpose only.

As for unloading a gun that has powder and ball in it, most of us shoot the load out into a safe backstop. Others use a CO2 device to blow the ball and powder out the barrel. Others use a woodscrew device called a Ball Pulling Jag, that fits on the end of a good ramrod, usually a range rod made of stainless steel, brass, or aircraft aluminum, which we screw into the ball, and then pull the ball out of the gun.

This is used most often when we fail to remember to put powder down the barrel. This little mistake happens to all- and I do mean all- muzzle loading shooters, sooner or later, because when you are new to this sport, its easy to get distracted and forget whether you have put powder down the barrel before you put the patch and ball down on top of it. I am a several times member of this honorable club of honorable men and women, and we look forward to hearing of your initiation. Then you can laugh with us, instead of at us!

Powder-patch-ball is the order you must remember as you load a muzzle loader. Get that order out of step and the gun is not going to shoot! We also have a Corkscrew shaped device-another jag- that is called a Patch puller jag. Its for fishing out patches if they get sideways in the barrel, or when you manage to leave a cleaning patch down the barrel. And, you may also need a breechplug face scraper for cleaning. This is another jag that has a flat blade attached to it, that looks like a screwdriver, designed for each caliber gun, so that you can turn it and scrape the face of the breech plug as part of the cleaning process. Some breech faces are rougher than others, and collect a lot of residue, easiest scraped off using a scraper.

I recommend that you clean between shots, running a lightly dampened cleaning patch down the barrel ( I use spit unless its below 0 degrees C. and then I use either an oil based lube, or alcohol when it gets really cold out.) to pull out the residue. Then use a dry cleaning patch to dry the barrel and pick up any liquified goo in the bottom of the chamber, so it is not pushed into your flash channel. Then the barrel is ready to be reloaded with a new charge of powder.

 

[PreglerD]

Many thanks for the lots of information. The point of the forgotten powder is not new to me. When target shooting at the range this happened to me, too. Normally I screw the piston out and fill some powder in the whole. Then I screw the piston in , put a cap on and shoot the ball out of the barrel with slow speed in a save direction.

How about other saftey rules, especially when moving in the hunting ground, so for example climbing over an obstacle or a fence or when hunting together with others. In Germany therefore you have the so called accident prevention rules ("Unfallverhütungsvorschrift"). There is regulated what is to beware when hunting and using rifles. Is there something comparable in the US?

Greetings from Bavaria, Germany

Kirrmeister

 

[paulvallandigham]

Field safety, and range safety are two different things. All the states offer Hunter Safety Courses, using the same books and materials. These are voluntary but are recommended to all hunters, of any age. Some states now require out of state residents to have passed such a course in order to hunt; others now require hunters of a certain age or less, or hunters born after a certain date, to take the courses. Basically the Ten Commandments of Gun Safety becomes the basis of both field and Range rules.

Range rules are proprietary- that is, the land owner, or the Range operator posts his own rules about where guns can be loaded, handled, when the range is open, closed, when it will be closed by a range officer, what is expect4ed of a shooter when a whistles signals the range is being closed down for any reason, etc. Each range, or gun club will have its own rules, which are posted at the registration desk, and usually also at each individual range in large letters. If you disobey the rules, they throw you out. You don't want a dozen armed angry men telling you to leave or else! I have been present when a shooter was waiving his gun all over the place, and everyone was looking around for a rope to make a noose and string the guy up. Several attempts were made to tell him what he was doing wrong, and he seemed to understand, but continued to violate range safety rules. Someone drove over to the office, and one of the owners came out and told the guy to leave. He tried to object, until he looked past the owner and saw other shooters grabbing their guns and loading them! All of a sudden, he very quietly, and politely packed his car, and drove away.

An Armed society is a polite society, one way or another.

Check the Game Regulations of the state where you intend to hunt, if its public land, or speak to the land owner about his rules before going into the field. We have common sense rules, as well as state regulations, and then we even have site regulations for State Owned Hunting Preserves. For instance, on private property, its legal to use a .22 rifle, or a shotgun, to shoot squirrels. On State Hunting Preserves, you may only use a shotgun. So pay attention. Its not legal to shoot a rifle or handgun bullet on, into or over any waterway( creek, stream, river, pond, lake, etc.) but its legal to shoot a shotgun into and over water, using shotgun pellets. If you are transporting a gun across a waterway by boat, you are required to have the gun unloaded and encased in the boat, but can remove the gun from the case, for instance, if you are shooting ducks, once you anchor the boat, and then load and shoot the gun from the anchored boat. I think the safey concerns are obvious. For the most part, most state regulations are designed to protect the environment, to give equal opportunities to all hunters to take some game, to protect hunters, and other land users in the field during hunting season, and to regulate the kinds of guns and ammo that can be used to hunt different species.

 

[Mike Mize]

In Oklahoma everyone born after Jan 1, 1972 who intends to hunt big game (deer, elk) must have a hunter safty card in order to purchase a tag. The only exception to this rule is if you are hunting with a bow during bow season. The classes are very well put to gather and cover all of the safty rules on how to treat a firearm,how to handle it both in and out of the field. they also cover everything from shot gun safty to muzzleloader, and modern gun safty.

 

[PreglerD]

Well I Think in Germany the intention of regulations are the same as in the US-protection of the environment and others who doesn't hunt. In Germany every one who wants to hunt have to make a very long and heavy education, after this there is a test existing of three parts,
1. multiple choice est with 60 questions
2. colloquium
3. gun handling and shooting with rifle and shotgun.

You have to survive all three parts, then you get the hunting licence (Jagdschein). Only the hunting licence allows the owner to buy longarms and 2 shortarms and to hunt with them. Single shot muzzys are free in Germany. You only need a powderlicence to buy the BP.
In Germany the right to hunt belongs to the property of territory, so only the owner of an area has the right to hunt-generally.But the hunting area must have a minimum of hectars, these are 82 hectars (820000 square meters). If this is not so the gouvernment put territories together to one hunting ground. These hunting grounds can be lent(German: pachten) from the owners for 9 or 12 years for hunting.Normally most owners are farmers who lend their fields and forests to the hunters. The gouvernment regulates who many deers are allowed to be shot, for example my hunting ground is 514 hectars big, half forest, half fields. I have to shot 30 roes per year. In Germany protection of the trees from deer biting at the buds is very necessary, especially the firtree is very often in danger to be bited (correct?).

 

[paulvallandigham]

Yes. Certain states have to deal with nuisance animals. For example, there is generally no restricted season in most Florida counties on shooting wild pigs, which tear up forests, and eat the new tress the Forest Service plants. Other Southern States with similar problems with wild , or feral hog populations treat them as pests, which can be killed any time of the year. Coyote used to be protected during our Firearm Deer Season, here in Illinois, but the State changed that rule because it found that with all the hunters in the woods during Deer season, we had the best chance to reduce the coyote population, which normally feeds on mice, but will also kill domestic cats, pheasants, quail, and other protected and desireable species. States adopt laws periodically to deal with all kinds of pests. On the Federal Level, which regulates migratory waterfowl pursuant to treaties with Canada and Mexico, the rules were changed a couple of years ago to extend the season for shooting White and Blue geese, which are much small geese than the Canada species, and to increase the daily bag limit from 3 to 15, simply because mild weather in the Yukon has allowed the population to explode, and the birds are destroying the tundra and their own nesting grounds, which will lead to a population crash that will last as many as 20 years or more if the population is not kept in check. You can hunt white geese in S. Illinois in the Centrala Flyway until March 1 each year. The rules also change to allow the use of mechanical calls( loud speakers) to call the birds in, as it is next to impossible to blow hard enough or long enough using mouth calls to bring the birds within range to shoot them. If that population is brought back into balance with the habitat, I expect to see the bag limits reduce, and the ban on mechanical calls be re introduced again.

I don't think there are many different ideas in the world regarding wildlife management, at least not anything we have not already tried here in the USA. That is not bragging, but simply reflects the fact that we began a serious effort to maintain wildlife, and restore species almost 100 years ago. Other countries had controlled hunting areas, and preserves, where land owners regulated hunting, and planted food, or used selective hunting to control the size and age of the herds, and this has been done for centuries. But in this country, it became national policy with passage of a funding Act in Congress back in the 1930s, which inposes an Excise tax on sporting goods, guns, fishing tackle, ammunition, etc. Which is parceled out to the states based on the number of hunting licenses each state sells each year. The Pittman Robinson Act has provided Billions of dollars over the years for funding of conservation programs. Some of that money has been used to educate state leaders and employees about Conservation methods, and to share information not only with all the 50 states and U.S. Territories, but also with Canada and Mexico, our neighbors. We have brought back the American Bald Eagle, Whitetail deer, coyote, wolves, hawks, owls, allegator, elk, moose, black and grizzly bear, caribou, and recently musk ox. Our populations of river otter, and beaver have exploded as we cleaned up the water, not just of pollutants, but of silt, with a program funded by the Federal Government to pay farmers to put certain lands that border ditches and streams into " filter strips". It has save top soil, and cleaned our rivers of silt that killed and buried mussel beds, and fish nesting areas. Our fresh water fish populations have also increased, as waters have been cleaned of silt.

Now if we can just get a market back for beaver pelts, shining times would be here again!

 

[Stumpkiller]

1. Which equipment is used especially for loading?
2. How is loaded(flask, horn, glas tubes)?
3. how is deloaded ?
4. Are there safety regulations by law?

1.) The ramrod (rammer) that's under the barrel. I also carry three to ten pre-lubed and patched round balls in a loading block or blocks so I have to carry less loading gear, or spend less time with cold hands trying to dig it out. Last year it was -10º F for our short mid-December season. I have a little 1-1/2" (38mm) stub starter to push the balls out of the block and start them in the barrel.

2.) Powder is measured with a bone measure I have attached to my powder horn with a leather thong.

3.) Either fired into the ground while in the woods or left in the barrel until I get home. An unprimed m/l rifle is considered "unloaded" in NY and can be transported. I pull the rammer and drop it in the barrel to remind me. I also stick a feather in the vent as a further "safety" and to prevent powder from the main charge trickling out and repriming the pan. Once home I extract the ball with a screw-type ball puller using a longer & heavier rod I keep for cleaning and ball pulling.

4.) No discharge within 500 ft of a dwelling without owner's permission, no discharge over roadways, no "loaded" firearm in or on a motor vehicle, shooting only allowed sunrise to sunset. Other safety concerns are suggestions but not laws. New York does not mandate clothing colors.

 

[PreglerD]

Hello stumpkiller!

thanks for the short but good information. In Germany the powder horn and the bone measure are not very common because muzzleloading is very strong influenced by the shooting range regulars and they don't allow such equipment. Powder has only to be used in little plastic glas tubes, flask, horn, etc are not allowed at all. for hunting there are no rules up to now, because nobody is hunting with muzzies in Germany. I'm the one who starts it now. Many hunters think it is forbidden by law, but thats not true. It is allowed when the bullets bring the minimum velocity ruled in the hunting law, for example 100meter-energy of 1000 J when hunting roes, 2000J for other game like red deer or wild boars.

 

[CrackStock]

http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
I will start by mentioning a friend's system for learning a lot about MuzzleLoading:

I will also try to supply my own information for you with a lot of links to Track of the Wolf because their pictures are so good at showing what is being discussed.

1. Which equipment is used especially for loading?
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(vh10whahyzaq2tjj4r540z45))/categories/catList.aspx?catID=1[/url]
Powder flask of some sort.
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...ies/partList.aspx?catID=1&subID=13&styleID=49[/url]
Powder measures can be either fixed or adjustable. I would use adjustable until I had a very good load selected and then I would make a fixed measure of bone, horn, antler or other material.
Your choice in powder measure is limited only by your imagination; materials available and your skill at making things.

Patches are cloth (generally thick and tight weave) needed to act as a gasket for a lead round ball. I use a sharp knife to cut mine after the ball is started into the muzzle. Others buy or make pre-cut patches. You will need thinner cleaning patches to be pushed down the bore with a cleaning and loading jag. Thick T shirts are good cleaning patch material.
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...s/partList.aspx?catID=6&subID=48&styleID=1047[/url]
I use a device known as a short starter and a small hammer to get the ball loaded into the bore. A short starter is generally a wooden ball with a bit of brass rod inserted into it to push the ball the first few inches into the bore. It may have a much shorter rod to just get the ball a half inch into the bore. The brass rods will be cupped on the end so as to minimize damage to the ball.
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com...s/tableList.aspx?catID=6&subID=48&styleID=136[/url]
I use a range rod which is a metal rod for loading rather than the wooden ramrod which is in the rifle. This has a cone shaped item which slides down to keep the rod from scraping the rifling at the muzzle.


You do not mention whether you intend to shoot flint or caplock. They each have special tools.
Caplocks need a nipple wrench and flintlocks needs flints, a bit of leather to hold the flint securely and a screwdriver. Other items may be needed, but this is the simple list.

2. How is loaded(flask, horn, glas tubes)?

Your main supply of powder for the day can be kept in some form of flask -- horn, copper, brass or even the can that you purchased it in. You need to load from a separate powder measure and close or cover that main powder supply so that no spark from your gun can set off the powder in your main supply and act as a hand grenade in your hand.

3. how is unloaded?

I have used 3 methods:

a. Shoot it out at a safe location. This allows me to learn how the gun shoots when clean and cold.

b. Ball puller also known as a ball screw can be attached to a good ram rod and the ball can be pulled out. This is somewhat dangerous since part of you will be in front of the muzzle at this time. A range rod with a "T" type handle can be hooked over something else so the gun can be pulled to remove the ball. A large ball handle on a range rod can be placed into the fork of a tree or similar structure to do the same.
[url] http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6430750[/url]
c.I also have a couple of the C O2 (carbon dioxide) devices known as silent ball dischargers.

There are other similar products avaiable which also use C O2 or other compressed gasses and can work with flint or caplocks.

4. Are there safety regulations by law?

There are many regulations in various states. Generally muzzleloaders are considered loaded when there is powder and a projectile in the bore AND the cap or prime is in place. However, you should be aware that StumpKiller's item number three is very good advice because flintlocks can prime themselves through leakage of the main charge into the pan. Also sparks from a well made flintlock can get into the vent without a prime charge. A oothpick or feature is suggested to keep sparks and moisture from your main charge for very different reasons. It is illegal in most areas to transport a loaded and primed or capped muzzleloader in a auto. It is just not safe.

Note. Remember that the first step in doing anything with a muzzleloader is to learn what the current condition is. Use your rod to see if it is loaded and how. You should mark your rod for unloaded and loaded situations so that you can check these by simply putting the rod into the bore of the barrel. This s an important safety check.

I hope that some of this helps. Ask any further questions before buying a lot of things since the shooters here have a lot of experience and may be able to assist.

CS

 

[PreglerD]

Thanks for the detailed information. I'm using a percussion rifle. But I'm not new at all in muzzleloading. I have good expirience in shooting and handling ML, but only under range conditions. The only thing which is new to me is[url] ML-hunting.In[/url] my club it is very common to shoot ML in authentic clothing. I dress as a revolutionary rifleman with threecorn, hunting shirt, moccasins, cal. 50 flint lock long rifle, powder horn and powder measure made of an roe antler. So I Will be right using the horn, measure an my possible bag outside for hunting. I would use the flintlock rífle also but it doesn't bring the per law ruled 100m energy of 1000J with a round ball an d for minies the twistn is to long. Tommorrow morning I will get out and try to kill aroe with my cal .54 Investarms Hawken. Hope to be lucky.

 

[bramble]

Good luck on the hunt. Let us hear how it goes.
bramble

 

[PreglerD]

Hello together,

went out this morning at 05:30P.M. and go to an earth seat in a large spruceforest where I have a bait. But no roes were coming, but they did take the bait, seems it was yesterday in the evening. So I will go out this evening again and hope to be lucky. After the hunt I made a shot with my .54 Investarms hawken to unload and to see how it shoots with a cold barrel. Use a .526 round ball, 0,25mm patch spittled, 90 grs Swiss no.2 BP, range was about 35 m, target was a stone, as big as a soccer ball, hit it in the center.I think that will be enough for successful hunting.

 

[Slamfire]

I have 5 segments of river cane, kinda like bamboo, that I load premeasured powder charges in. I also carry patched round balls in a bullet block. Now I have dispensed with the need to carry a lot of powder, a measure, patch knife, ball bag, etc. I have cut the segments at both ends and tapered twigs to plug the ends. If I can't make meat with 6 shots in the course of the day, I just go home!

 

[bigbore442001]

Kirrmeister:

Keep in mind that for the most part, the United States of America is composed of fifty different states, thus you have fifty different sets of regulations for hunting as well as most of everything else.

I live on the border of Massachusetts and Connecticut. Although the terrain is pretty much the same and the state line is somewhat invisible in some woods I hunt in, the laws are very different. As an example, on one side of the line in Massachusetts I cannot hunt deer with a centerfire rifle. It has to be bow, muzzleloader or shotgun with slugs or buckshot. I can step ten feet over the line and hunt with my 30-06, with landowner[url] permission.In[/url] Connecticut, you cannot hunt the regular firearm season for deer with a muzzleloader. I asked a warden if I could use my muzzleloader during the firearm season. He said no and they have confiscated muzzleloaders from hunters doing so. He stated that they can only be used during the muzzleloading season. That is just a small example of what the reality is.

The questions that you have presented are very valid and thoughtful. The first three questions are left up to the shooter or hunter. It is a matter of personal choice. I tend to hunt modern so I use plastic speedloader containers for both powder and bullet. I take six speedloaders and I am set for the whole day.

The fourth question depends on the state. Here in Massachusetts, you have to wear 500 square inches of hunter or safety orange visible from all sides. So a hat and vest of that material will cover the law.

In addition, you may not hunt within 500 feet of an occupied dwelling without the permission of the owner.

You may not hunt within 150 feet of a public paved road.

A muzzleloader is considered to be unloaded when the primer, percussion cap or pan charge is removed. So a muzzleloader can have a full powder charge and bullet, but without the priming charge or cap, it is legally unloaded.

That is pretty much it for safety rules mandated by law.

 

[PreglerD]

Hello bigbore 442001:

I know about the problem of a federal organized state like the US, because in Germany it is comparable althoug it is much smaller in territory and population. There is a federal hunting law but the states regulate most things by their own huntings laws, so you have as much laws as states, these are 16 up to now. So for example in Bavaria it is allowed to lure with everything you want at a bait. Hessian hunting law forbids this. The law rules what stuffs are allowed an how many can be brought out.
My fourth question was asked to get a impression which I could use for hunting in Germany, because here bp-hunting is not very coomon and we from the BP-Initiatve will change[url] this.In[/url] this direction German hunters are very conservative.

 

[Pork Chop]

I would dearly love to go on a hunt in Bavaria. My Mother and her family were from southern Germany. It is beautiful country. I have often said that I would love to live there.

 

[CrackStock]

I wish you the best of luck in getting ML guns into greater use in your country.

It will please me to hear of your success. My family originated in various parts of Germany and my sister in law is from there. Fischer, Hudepol, Doescher, Krohn, Vorbusch, Dëll...

I visited Heidelberg a year and a half ago and was surprised at how big the rabbits were that I saw from the Frankfurt train.

My little Tennessee .40 might have been too small! :shocked2:

CS