Pushing For More Reasonable Hunting Regulations?

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ML48

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Actually, in Pennsylvania, for 50 years, the three week muzzle loader season was for flint ignition long guns of the style existing before 1800 or reproductions thereof. Not Any old muzzle loader gun. You want to hunt with an easy button gun there is a one week early antlerless season for guys who lack the self discipline to learn how to shoot a flintlock.
Again, we're talking about regulations, not what's the better projectile, better muzzleloader, bettter powder, etc.
There is no reason to knock folks that don't shoot flintlocks.
That is the biggest problem I've seen with forums...."IF YOU DON'T DO WHAT I DO YOU"RE WRONG"!!
We all have a right to shoot what we like without non-sensical ridicule.
 

zimmerstutzen

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"W" you did a great job of covering what you wanted. And I have to agree what you said made common sense.
1.) A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader, no matter what your feelings on in-lines.
2.) We don't need more gun regulations, we need common sense regulations....now that is a tough one.
3.) Not only do we need to reform gun regulations to make more sense, we need to reform those in charge!!! PERIOD
4.)

Common sense would dictate: standardize the regs.....but you know that ain't gonna happen:doh:.

Illinois: you can use a scope during muzzleloader season. There should be no problem with this anywhere, especially for folks with older failing eyes. That is about the only regulation in Illinois that makes sense. Other than that...Illinois is another gun hating state with regs up the ying yang!

Comirado: Muzzleloader season and archery season in one. No problem.
However, in order to use a scope, you have to jump through hoops, to prove you eyes require it.
Sabots are not allowed...why....no reason available.
In order to get more money from hunters, now you not only have to have a 'habitat stamp", you have to buy a fishing and small game license. Make sense? NO!
There's more but you get the gist of some of the most ridiculous regulations on the books.
Pennsylvania flintlock hunters have been successful at rejecting every fool movement that comes along wanting to open up the three week flintlock season to other guns. It is quite simple. You want to hunt archery you need to use archery, Don't try to claim a veterinarians tranquilizer gun is archery and demand entrance to the woods for deer. Nor will your harpoon gun count as archery. Not even the spear gun that came with your scuba gear. You want to play the game, you need to heed the rules. Flintlock muzzle loading long gun of 1800 or before or a replica thereof does not mean an damn primer ignited inline. Nor does it mean percussion. A flint lock inline igntion is welcome if it is a long gun from before 1800 or a copy thereof. We take great pride in our "heritage season" for flintlocks. It was never meant as a game management tool. Nor was it intended to open the flood gates to a bigger deer harvest. We took the dregs of the season, beginning the day after Christmas in the winter after the rut and the woods are mostly deserted. Of the 860,000 hunting licenses sold in PA in 2019, only 150,000 also got muzzle loading licenses. with 29,000 whitetail taken with muzzle loaders. They don't separate the antlerless deer harvests between the early "any muzzle loader" season and the flint season, but only 1,290 antlered deer taken in the late flint season, along with some portion of the 27,700 antlerless.
 

zimmerstutzen

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Again, we're talking about regulations, not what's the better projectile, better muzzleloader, bettter powder, etc.
There is no reason to knock folks that don't shoot flintlocks.
That is the biggest problem I've seen with forums...."IF YOU DON'T DO WHAT I DO YOU"RE WRONG"!!
We all have a right to shoot what we like without non-sensical ridicule.
Yep regulations limit the three week after Christmas to FLINTLOCKS. not just any muzzle loader. You want to hunt in that season, obey the rules and get a flintlock.
 

ML48

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Pennsylvania flintlock hunters have been successful at rejecting every fool movement that comes along wanting to open up the three week flintlock season to other guns. It is quite simple. You want to hunt archery you need to use archery, Don't try to claim a veterinarians tranquilizer gun is archery and demand entrance to the woods for deer. Nor will your harpoon gun count as archery. Not even the spear gun that came with your scuba gear. You want to play the game, you need to heed the rules. Flintlock muzzle loading long gun of 1800 or before or a replica thereof does not mean an damn primer ignited inline. Nor does it mean percussion. A flint lock inline igntion is welcome if it is a long gun from before 1800 or a copy thereof. We take great pride in our "heritage season" for flintlocks. It was never meant as a game management tool. Nor was it intended to open the flood gates to a bigger deer harvest. We took the dregs of the season, beginning the day after Christmas in the winter after the rut and the woods are mostly deserted. Of the 860,000 hunting licenses sold in PA in 2019, only 150,000 also got muzzle loading licenses. with 29,000 whitetail taken with muzzle loaders. They don't separate the antlerless deer harvests between the early "any muzzle loader" season and the flint season, but only 1,290 antlered deer taken in the late flint season, along with some portion of the 27,700 antlerless.
Again the subject is:
Pushing For More Reasonable Hunting Regulations?
However, since you're stuck on one thing, what you just described are all muzzleloaders...sooooo what da problem:dunno:. Oh, except for archery, my bad.
First off archery season opens 1 month before they add the muzzleloader season to it.
Second of all, you are being totally ridiculous😂🤣....a muzzleloader is a muzzleloader.
To your way fo thinking...if you want to call it that, here are the new seasons and regulations.
1.) Archery long bow primitive only
2.) Archery recurve only
3.) Archery compound bow only
5.) Archery crossbow only
===================================
Muzzleloader matchlock only
Muzzleloader wheel lock only
Muzzleloader flintlock only (inline flintlock reproduction)
Muzzleloader percussion only
Muzzleloader inline pre 1900's
Muzzleloader inline post 1900's
If I left anything out, I apologize
=========================================
Now to cartridge rifle.....aww hell you get where this is going, right?
 
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Wyoming doesn't have Muzzleloading season and it drives me nuts. You just have to hunt black powder during regular rifle season. I intend to try to get this changed after I speak to the State Muzzleloader Assoc. Probably won't get anywhere, but I'm going to try.
It really is silly. I think there is only one area in the whole state that even mentions muzzleloaders, and that’s an antelope area on south pass that’s pistol/muzzleloader. I hunt every year regular rifle season with my ML and usually get meat, but I usually have to hunt twice as hard for it. A ML season would be fantastic. I did inquire with G&F locally, just kinda testing the waters, and the local guy who is kind of a friend said he doesn’t think anything would ever come of it. Too many politics. It seems hard to get anything at all changed in this state
 

zimmerstutzen

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Again the subject is:
Pushing For More Reasonable Hunting Regulations?
However, since you're stuck on one thing, what you just described are all muzzleloaders...sooooo what da problem:dunno:. Oh, except for archery, my bad.
First off archery season opens 1 month before they add the muzzleloader season to it.
Second of all, you are being totally ridiculous😂🤣....a muzzleloader is a muzzleloader.
To your way fo thinking...if you want to call it that, here are the new seasons and regulations.
1.) Archery long bow primitive only
2.) Archery recurve only
3.) Archery compound bow only
5.) Archery crossbow only
===================================
Muzzleloader matchlock only
Muzzleloader wheel lock only
Muzzleloader flintlock only (inline flintlock reproduction)
Muzzleloader percussion only
Muzzleloader inline pre 1900's
Muzzleloader inline post 1900's
If I left anything out, I apologize
=========================================
Now to cartridge rifle.....aww hell you get where this is going, right?
You must have trouble reading my posts. I used the archery season as a non-muzzle loading example of what the whiners who want to dumb down archery season have advocated. They want to use spear guns, veterinary dart guns etc. Those are NOT archery. Now, a season for Flintlocks, that has existed for 50 years is quite reasonable and simple. FLINTLOCK only. You want to hunt during flintlock season, you MUST use a flintlock. An 1852 Sharps is not a flintllock. A Trapdoor springfield is not a flintlock. A whatever stainless steel carbine length shot gun primer ignited space age bullmanure gun is being touted by manufacturers today is not a FLINTLOCK. No body is advocating special seasons for all those. To follow your logic all special seasons should be eliminated and we have just one limited deer season combined for all firearms, shotguns and archery, atlatls, harpoon guns and grenades. Yeah you come here to PA and stand in front of the Commission and even mention eliminating flintlock season and you will be verbally harassed back to the parking lot. Mention eliminating archery season for a single hunting season for all weapons, and you will need an armed guard to make it to the parking lot alive.

we have a much loved flintlock only season for which a few crybabies are constantly whining that they want in, but not willing to play by the rules and actually use a flintlock. If somebody wants to go hunting in a season they have to comply with the rules for that season. Every whiner wants to use their percussion, inline, firestriker, centerfire loaded as a muzzle loader and black powder cartridge rifle in flint lock season. They can all pound sand. The rule is quite reasonable, simple and has existed for a half century. FLINTLOCK season. You are being ridiculous., just like our whiners who want to use in-lines in the FLINTLOCK only season.
 

ML48

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You must have trouble reading my posts. I used the archery season as a non-muzzle loading example of what the whiners who want to dumb down archery season have advocated. They want to use spear guns, veterinary dart guns etc. Those are NOT archery. Now, a season for Flintlocks, that has existed for 50 years is quite reasonable and simple. FLINTLOCK only. You want to hunt during flintlock season, you MUST use a flintlock. An 1852 Sharps is not a flintllock. A Trapdoor springfield is not a flintlock. A whatever stainless steel carbine length shot gun primer ignited space age bullmanure gun is being touted by manufacturers today is not a FLINTLOCK. No body is advocating special seasons for all those. To follow your logic all special seasons should be eliminated and we have just one limited deer season combined for all firearms, shotguns and archery, atlatls, harpoon guns and grenades. Yeah you come here to PA and stand in front of the Commission and even mention eliminating flintlock season and you will be verbally harassed back to the parking lot. Mention eliminating archery season for a single hunting season for all weapons, and you will need an armed guard to make it to the parking lot alive.

we have a much loved flintlock only season for which a few crybabies are constantly whining that they want in, but not willing to play by the rules and actually use a flintlock. If somebody wants to go hunting in a season they have to comply with the rules for that season. Every whiner wants to use their percussion, inline, firestriker, centerfire loaded as a muzzle loader and black powder cartridge rifle in flint lock season. They can all pound sand. The rule is quite reasonable, simple and has existed for a half century. FLINTLOCK season. You are being ridiculous., just like our whiners who want to use in-lines in the FLINTLOCK only season.
Thee my dear friend....thee are hopeless and also thee are a "whiner"😂😇
Thou dost knoweth that crossbows go back to 400 to 500 years before christ righteth🎯.
 
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zimmerstutzen

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Thee my dear friend....thee are hopeless and also thee are a "whiner"😂😇
Thou dost knoweth that crossbows go back to 400 to 500 years before christ righteth🎯.
And that is relevant to spear guns, harpoon guns and dart guns just how? Cross bows are permitted in the archery season. Note the name Archery, not long bow season. BTW, Altatls go back 10,000 years before the cross bow, You are the one apparently having a problem with a Flintlock season to celebrate the state's heritage with the Pennsylvania long rifle. . Other muzzle loaders are welcome in the regular firearms season.
 

ML48

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And that is relevant to spear guns, harpoon guns and dart guns just how? Cross bows are permitted in the archery season. Note the name Archery, not long bow season. BTW, Altatls go back 10,000 years before the cross bow, You are the one apparently having a problem with a Flintlock season to celebrate the state's heritage with the Pennsylvania long rifle. . Other muzzle loaders are welcome in the regular firearms season.
UH..dude, Archery applies to cross bows, long bows, re-curve, compound bow, etc....
Thee my dear friend....thee are hopeless and also thee are a "whiner"😂😇
My flintlock muzzleloader may be used in any muzzleloader season, just like any other differently named muzzleloader, but, a muzzleloader just the same. And my percussion muzzleloader may be used in a muzzleloader season, which includes flintlock muzzleloaders, inline muzzleloaders, wheel lock muzzleloaders, match lock muzzleloaders, which in all reality are ALL MUZZLELOADERS. We are not doing period french and Indian war, rendezvous, revolutionary war, civil war, or any other re-enactments here....We Are But Hunting In Muzzleloader Season:ThankYou::horseback::thumb:
 

Okie Hog

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i don't have any heartburn with Oklahoma muzzleloader regulations as they are written. The first week of Fort Sill muzzleloader season is conventional muzzleloaders firing lead conicals or patched round balls only. No scopes or sabots are allowed.

i'm totally opposed to use of small caliber muzzleloaders on deer. i have my grandfathers diary. Grand Pap shot a big buck with a muzzleloader that fired a patched number 1 buckshot. He followed and retrieved the deer on the third day.
 

ML48

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i don't have any heartburn with Oklahoma muzzleloader regulations as they are written. The first week of Fort Sill muzzleloader season is conventional muzzleloaders firing lead conicals or patched round balls only. No scopes or sabots are allowed.

i'm totally opposed to use of small caliber muzzleloaders on deer. i have my grandfathers diary. Grand Pap shot a big buck with a muzzleloader that fired a patched number 1 buckshot. He followed and retrieved the deer on the third day.
What do you consider small cal.?
 
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ML48

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And that is relevant to spear guns, harpoon guns and dart guns just how? Cross bows are permitted in the archery season. Note the name Archery, not long bow season. BTW, Altatls go back 10,000 years before the cross bow, You are the one apparently having a problem with a Flintlock season to celebrate the state's heritage with the Pennsylvania long rifle. . Other muzzle loaders are welcome in the regular firearms season.
You have me confused. So yu hunt with spear guns, harpoons and dart guns. Where the hell you huntin'?? 🤣 😂
 

ML48

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i don't have any heartburn with Oklahoma muzzleloader regulations as they are written. The first week of Fort Sill muzzleloader season is conventional muzzleloaders firing lead conicals or patched round balls only. No scopes or sabots are allowed.

i'm totally opposed to use of small caliber muzzleloaders on deer. i have my grandfathers diary. Grand Pap shot a big buck with a muzzleloader that fired a patched number 1 buckshot. He followed and retrieved the deer on the third day.
#1 bucksot is pretty small. .30"...however with good shot placement that deer should have dropped.
 
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Yep regulations limit the three week after Christmas to FLINTLOCKS. not just any muzzle loader. You want to hunt in that season, obey the rules and get a flintlock.
PA also has a regular ML season, in addition to gun season(s)... so IDK what you're harping about. Apparently, once WT deer cross the border into PA, they grow 5x and require a bigger gun than even Ohio requires lol.
 
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i don't have any heartburn with Oklahoma muzzleloader regulations as they are written. The first week of Fort Sill muzzleloader season is conventional muzzleloaders firing lead conicals or patched round balls only. No scopes or sabots are allowed.

i'm totally opposed to use of small caliber muzzleloaders on deer. i have my grandfathers diary. Grand Pap shot a big buck with a muzzleloader that fired a patched number 1 buckshot. He followed and retrieved the deer on the third day.
a 73gr .36 round ball is a far cry from a 158, 278 or 330gr cast bullet. A 40gr .30 RB is a far cry from a 100, 150, or 200gr cast bullet. Small RB's (.30-.38) are a pistol-shot proposition, but at those ranges, if you load it up to what you need to get it done, it will still put 'em down. I've made some express rifles in .36 set up to use 140-158gr cast WC's and/or HP's, and those would be great on deer out to 200 yards. Most of the .32 express rifles (70-100gr bullets) are bought to smoke Ground hogs and coyotes, but would still take deer at 100 yards (particularly with the 100gr's). Sent a few Rifle-rifles (125gr+ bullets) out, and I expect more orders in the future (nice thing is you can use a RB and an insanely light charge for small game in the same rifle).
 
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UH..dude, Archery applies to cross bows, long bows, re-curve, compound bow, etc....
Thee my dear friend....thee are hopeless and also thee are a "whiner"😂😇
My flintlock muzzleloader may be used in any muzzleloader season, just like any other differently named muzzleloader, but, a muzzleloader just the same. And my percussion muzzleloader may be used in a muzzleloader season, which includes flintlock muzzleloaders, inline muzzleloaders, wheel lock muzzleloaders, match lock muzzleloaders, which in all reality are ALL MUZZLELOADERS. We are not doing period french and Indian war, rendezvous, revolutionary war, civil war, or any other re-enactments here....We Are But Hunting In Muzzleloader Season:ThankYou::horseback::thumb:
It's like people don't realize you can have a general Archery and ML season... and a trad-only season. PA does it lol. I wouldn't mind a trad-bow and a trad-ML season either in OH, even if it were only an extra few days, to encourage people to learn about our heritage, as hunters.
 
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a 73gr .36 round ball is a far cry from a 158, 278 or 330gr cast bullet. A 40gr .30 RB is a far cry from a 100, 150, or 200gr cast bullet. Small RB's (.30-.38) are a pistol-shot proposition, but at those ranges, if you load it up to what you need to get it done, it will still put 'em down. I've made some express rifles in .36 set up to use 140-158gr cast WC's and/or HP's, and those would be great on deer out to 200 yards. Most of the .32 express rifles (70-100gr bullets) are bought to smoke Ground hogs and coyotes, but would still take deer at 100 yards (particularly with the 100gr's). Sent a few Rifle-rifles (125gr+ bullets) out, and I expect more orders in the future (nice thing is you can use a RB and an insanely light charge for small game in the same rifle).
the Rifle-rifles I mentioned was referring to .32. My .32-.50 rifles are set up to use a bullet larger than roughly 2x a RB's weight (and mouse-fart loads with RB for sm. game)
My express rifles are set up to shoot RB, up to a bullet roughly 2X the weight of a RB.
Any caliber over .50 is just made with one twist in each caliber, as with commonly available/used molds/bullets, there isn't much of a difference in twist rate between a decent RB gun and a good Bullet-rifle, in my experience.
 
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dave61965

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#1 bucksot is pretty small. .30"...however with good shot placement that deer should have dropped.
Texas doesn’t have a minimum caliber so I’m not limited in what I hunt with as long as it’s a muzzleloader, I’ve killed multiple deer with a 250 grain .375 paper patched bulletin from an original percussion fast twist rifle, also taken a couple with a .350 patched round ball out of one my flintlocks but I know my rifles, my shooting limitations and the anatomy of my target, most of my deer drop in their tracks or within a few yards, I know guys that can’t kill with an inline rifle so I don’t believe size is as big of a problem as the guys that pull the gun out of the closet once a year and expect to be able to be able to make a good kill with it.
 

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Wrong again ole' buddy. They created a muzzleloader only season for any muzzleloading gun. If they would have created a strict season for only traditional, it would have been labeled so. ....period.
When we were pushing for the creation of the muzzleloading season, ole buddy, it was put forward as a traditional season. Politicians bitched that up at the last minute, too. As they do.
Jay
 

ML48

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When we were pushing for the creation of the muzzleloading season, ole buddy, it was put forward as a traditional season. Politicians bitched that up at the last minute, too. As they do.
Jay
Let it go man. A muzzleloader, is a muzzleloader, any way you put it. Face it...you are wrong:D🤣.
 
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