English, Pennsylvania, or moravian fowler

[Capt. Jas.]

Do you know where I can get a round hooked tang

Not sure if the Rifle Shoppe has a rounded standing breech that will fit the Chambers kit barrel.
I would look for a piece of angle iron and start from there.

 

[Loja man]

I know Rice makes the barrel for the Chambers PA Fowler. I talked to Rice barrels at friendship Indiana and they had the option of installing a hooked breach for that barrel. Maybe check and see what kind of barrel Chambers uses on the English Fowler. Then have a conversation with the barrel manufacturer as well as Chambers.

 

[StarnesRowan]

I know Rice makes the barrel for the Chambers PA Fowler. I talked to Rice barrels at friendship Indiana and they had the option of installing a hooked breach for that barrel. Maybe check and see what kind of barrel Chambers uses on the English Fowler. Then have a conversation with the barrel manufacturer as well as Chambers.

If it comes right down to it I will build the kit as an officer's fusil. I have found evidence of those being pined the a standerd breech

 

[Capt. Jas.]

If it comes right down to it I will build the kit as an officer's fusil. I have found evidence of those being pined the a standerd breech

Yes sir, some good examples in Of Sorts for Provincials.

 

[StarnesRowan]

Yes sir, some good examples in Of Sorts for Provincials.

I have read parts of that book and I keep seeing refrences to both fowlers and fusils. Are they used interchangeably

 

[rich pierce]

I have read parts of that book and I keep seeing refrences to both fowlers and fusils. Are they used interchangeably

It depends in who is talking. To me, a fowler is a gun whose main purpose is shooting birds. Both terms have become big umbrellas. Hudson Valley fowlers were clearly for waterfowl as their primary purpose. Many other guns we call fowlers were more utility smoothbore guns.

The word fusil has military connotations when an English gun is being discussed. It is a more general term when a French gun is being discussed.

7 different people will have 7 different takes on it.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I believe Rice is now making a hooked breech and tang to fit their round barrels. Keep in mind there are a lot of fowlers misnamed as "officer's fusils" . The fowler on which the Chamber kit is based was almost certainly never an officer's fusil. A real officer's fusil will have sling swivels and be cut back for a full sized bayonet. It is not just a fowler with military themed engraving. It will also have any other features that the officer was willing to pay for because these were not government issued. They were purchased privately by the officer or his regimental colonel. You would have to figure out how to add a sling swivel to the trigger guard on the Chambers kit. Here is an example I made styled from the 1770s (English styling changed over the 18th century). It is largely styled as a civilian sporting gun but made a little beefier and set up for a bayonet and sling swivels. This one also happens to be rifled of which a few examples still survive.

The forward sling swivel is not just drilled through the stock. The screw also goes through a lug soldered on the bottom of the barrel.

The Chambers kit will make a nice gun whether or not you include a standing breech or not. The key is you stated your impression is a prosperous farmer. A prosperous person likely would carry a finer gun than a trade gun. The Chambers kit fills that bill nicely and there were British fowlers made without standing breeches but most of the better quality guns had them during the time period you indicated. Regardless, the Chambers kit as is would work fine for your impression and probably no one is going to notice it has no standing breech or barrel keys.

With respect to fowlers and fusils, use the search function and type in "fowler vs fusil" and a whole bunch of posts will come up.

dave

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I have read parts of that book and I keep seeing refrences to both fowlers and fusils. Are they used interchangeably

To add to what Dave and Rich have already said.. there were not just "officer's" fuzees. There were plenty of civilian models that as described above were hard to tell from birding pieces. The main difference in fowling piece and fuzee was barrel form. While both COULD be cylinder bored, a fuzee was a cylinder bore gun as it was designed mainly to shoot ball. Fowling pieces could have their bores enlarged at the muzzle and sometimes at the breech as they were intended to shoot shot and these features, no matter how subtle were early attempts to control shot patterns before choking was used. Many bores on fowling guns were roughened inside the breech area as well with the intent to apparently slow the wad.
I truly believe that in America there were plenty of fixed breech fowling guns and fuzees for civilian use. Like I said prior, if you go earlier with your piece the odds of a fixed breech on a better grade gun increases.
Of Sorts for Provincials has a good middling grade birding piece on page 49 and a lesser grade (but higher than a Carolina trading gun fuzee) fixed breech fowling gun by Wilson on page 51 IIRC.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Hi,
I believe Rice is now making a hooked breech and tang to fit their round barrels. Keep in mind there are a lot of fowlers misnamed as "officer's fusils" . The fowler on which the Chamber kit is based was almost certainly never an officer's fusil. A real officer's fusil will have sling swivels and be cut back for a full sized bayonet. It is not just a fowler with military themed engraving. It will also have any other features that the officer was willing to pay for because these were not government issued. They were purchased privately by the officer or his regimental colonel. You would have to figure out how to add a sling swivel to the trigger guard on the Chambers kit. Here is an example I made styled from the 1770s (English styling changed over the 18th century). It is largely styled as a civilian sporting gun but made a little beefier and set up for a bayonet and sling swivels. This one also happens to be rifled of which a few examples still survive.

The forward sling swivel is not just drilled through the stock. The screw also goes through a lug soldered on the bottom of the barrel.

The Chambers kit will make a nice gun whether or not you include a standing breech or not. The key is you stated your impression is a prosperous farmer. A prosperous person likely would carry a finer gun than a trade gun. The Chambers kit fills that bill nicely and there were British fowlers made without standing breeches but most of the better quality guns had them during the time period you indicated. Regardless, the Chambers kit as is would work fine for your impression and probably no one is going to notice it has no standing breech or barrel keys.

With respect to fowlers and fusils, use the search function and type in "fowler vs fusil" and a whole bunch of posts will come up.

dave

I emailed Rice Barrels and got a reply from Jason Schneider that they are indeed making standing breeches, cost is $175.00 plus $50.00 to have it installed. They look very good but the pictures he sent showed octagon breeches, a round barrel would need the breeches to be filed to match the barrel.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I emailed Rice Barrels and got a reply from Jason Schneider that they are indeed making standing breeches, cost is $175.00 plus $50.00 to have it installed. They look very good but the pictures he sent showed octagon breeches, a round barrel would need the breeches to be filed to match the barrel.

I can't get your pictures to show. Anyone else see them?

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

I'm sorry, just not that good with the computer!

 

[Capt. Jas.]

You are not alone : )

 

[Loja man]

I can't get your pictures to show. Anyone else see them?

Nope!

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

I figured it out!!
Thank you for your email. This is what i have available. I copied a 1805 Manton Fowler patient breech and tang. I wll send images. They are available in 1”, 1 1/8” and 1 1/4”. The price is $175 ea. If you want me to install and time the plug to the barrel add $50.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Ok gotcha. The patent breech explains the price. Wonder if they make a standing breech and hook for standard breeching?

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

The rifle shoppe does!

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Yes they do offer investment castings off of originals.

 

[StarnesRowan]

The rifle shoppe does!

My only problem with the rifle shoppe is every person I talk to says they may take years to get your order to you

 

[Capt. Jas.]

My only problem with the rifle shoppe is every person I talk to says they may take years to get your order to you

Call and verify as in stock. If so, then place order over phone. If its in stock, I've always had it within a week and a half. I think they ship at the end of each week.

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

Call and verify as in stock. If so, then place order over phone. If its in stock, I've always had it within a week and a half. I think they ship at the end of each week.

Thanks for the info guys!