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Grey Hawk

40 Cal.
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I use a Musket Cap and nipple on my T/C White Mountain Carbine. When I started I was using Pyrodex R/S and a #11 cap and nipple. Since I got all set up with the Pyrodex, life was ok but not great. I then went and added a 50 cal Lymann Flint GPR to my collection and was quickly introduced to the use of real Black Powder. Now I still shoot my T/C WMC, but a Musket Cap and Nipple pretty much guarantee's a good ignition.

I feel like I'm putting a Hemi in my Model A

signed feeling a little dirty :redface:
 
YOu might just try some Black Powder in that gun, and see if you don't get better accuracy.

Those magnum primers and that hot powder tend to widen the SDV( standard deviation in velocity) Unfortunately, you need to use those magnum problems to ignite that powder reliably. At least you seem to be using the powder, rather than the pellets.

You don't mention what projectile you are pushing out the barrel, so I won't comment, other than to say that you can't overstabilize( over spin) a RB.

You can do a lot of inexpensive practice with RBs in that gun, using less expensive Black Powder, and cheaper, standard percussion caps. The reduction in recoil will make you want to shoot that gun in practice more often, and that will give you your money's worth. :thumbsup:
 
I have only shot R/B and patch 90grn of Pyrodex. It is quite capable of shooting minnies in fact the previous owner sent some home made rb's & minnies with the WMC when I bought it. I will probably shoot up the pyro and move over to BP only, specially since I just put in an order for BP that is half the food budget...sorrry honey.....but it's still cheaper than a girlfriend. I mostly punch paper, 25,50 & 75 yards.
I am still getting up a rb & patch load for my WMC to hunt with. Deer and Elk are the two where I live. 90 grns for Rb & p for deer but will probably step up a notch to maybe a 100 grn and maxi-ball for Elk...opinions?
 
I know lotsa folks who use musket nipples and caps along with Pyro, but I'm curious if you've tried using Pyro P rather than R/S. We live where real black is more scarce than honest politicians, so there's been lots of work with the subs.

I'm not really suprised you had problems igniting the RS after several shots with #11s, but a switch to P along with a 10-grain drop in charge has solved it for all of us. The only gun I own that is still fussy with P has a drum rather than a patent breech. No T/C that I've used or been around up here fusses about either Pyro P or Triple Seven 3f with #11 caps. Lymans can be a little fussy till you toss the original Lyman nipples and replace them with #11's from most any other source.

When we manage to get some black, it certainly ignites the easiest. But that doesn't mean we have to quit shooting when the real black runs out.

I'd be inclined to reinstall the #11 nipple and try Pyro P. If you can get real black, then by all means use it. But just in case it's hard to get or you run out, the prudent man will know all he can about making his guns work with subs. Seems like pure, simple common sense to me.
 
Seeing your location, I'm sure a run down to the local store for supplies could be an adventure. I just ordered from Powder, Inc. and including shipping to me in WA the total came to $296.25 or 11.85 pound. That will last me for a good long while. Maybe you could split up and order with some buddies.

You are correct in knowing all about what makes things work the best and that is one of the reasons I also went with a flinter as well as my percussion.

So drop the load by 10 and go.....will try and see with the #11 nipple.....

Thanks
 
I think you will find that 80 grains under a .50 cal. conical is more than adequate, and may save your shoulder a bit. Remember, that Buffalo Bill killed an extraordinary number of buffalo with a .50-70 Springfield Rifle. That is .50 caliber, and 70 grains of FFg under a 550 grain bullet. The slug was known to travel through two buffalo on occasion. There is one report from the military where a soldier fired at a mounted Indian who was attacking his position, and the bullet not only killed the Indian he targeted, but two other Indians riding horses behind the first, that the soldier did not see. The officer who wrote the report to the army Ordinance department said that when this soldier fired his gun, no one else fired or was prepared to fire, either reloading their own gun, or ducking incoming rounds from the attacking Indians. A number of witnesses confirmed the three dead Indians, and their horses milled around the bodies for some time, before being driven off by other Indians withdrawing from the fight.

Now, your slug doesn't weight 550 grains. But it does weigh over 300 grains, and with 437.5 grains to the ounce, that is a HUGE CHUNK of lead. You are going to kill deer and elk as far away as you can hit them. You don't need 100 grains of powder, although there was a .50-100, and a .50-120,and a .50-140 Sharps cartridge made in the 1880s. A .50-90 was used at the second battle of Adobe Wells, in the Texas Panhandle to kill and Indian who with a group of about 20 Indians, were horseback overlooking the battle scene from a knollrecently measured at nearly 7/8 of a mile! The Chiefs thought they were safe that far from the battle, but a scout Named Billy Dixon took offense at their arrogance, borrowed a " Big 50", from the store keeper, and fired the shot. Billy had been a Buffalo hunter, and his own gun was in being repair, or he would have used it. He was not aiming at an individual Indian, nor at just one Indian on a horse, as the story is sometimes mistold. He was aiming at a group of Indians from below them, and hoping that he could " worry them " a bit with a well placed shot. He not only worried them, but the Chief considered the mortally wounded Indian in his group by that shot to be a bad omen, and he withdrew his men from the attack.

I tell the story only because it is a true one, and indicates the powder of these heavy caliber bullets. With 70 grains of powder, that bullet you are using will go through any Elk that walks this Earth. :hmm: :hatsoff:
 
I think it's time to do more homework on my Elk load. I plan on doing this for a long time. Thanks for the heads up.
 
I think you have sinned and must repent. I recommend sending your gun to me and forgiveness will be yours. Okay, just kidding.

You have gotten good advice already in this thread.
Dan
 
I've been using Pyrodex RS and #11 caps in my Cabela's Hawken for 23 years and never a problem.
 
i agree with Paul V, if you go with real black powder you will be happier, cooler, more respected; you'll get the raise you deserve, your hair will grow back, you will shed those excess pounds, you're dog will come home, your mom will get out of prison, the bank won't foreclose on your house, you'll get your pick 'em up truck back, your girlfriend will think you're cute again ...

and you won't have to play a country western record backwards...

really, the BP will solve many problems. by the way, it's only 'cheating' if you say you're gonna do one thing and then go and do something else which would give you and advantage, or if you engage in behaviour which would be considered fraudulent in the cold grey light of morning. so, if you say you're using a model A, and you 'fess up that there's a hemi under the hood, it's not cheating.

just one guys opinion.
 
The main advantage to using a musket cap is they are easier to orient and get on the nipple. As far as ignition alone is concerned if using BP there is no advantage but with the subs the extra priming compound is a definate plus.
 
I don['t see any advantage to using musket caps, unless you are trying to cap the nipple bare handed. If you use a Capper, like my Tedd Cash capper that is oval in shape, and holds 100 caps at a time, there is no advantage. I can cap the nipple very fast now that i have done it a couple of hundred times.
 
Yep, bare handed is what I was speaking of. I use a CW style cap pouch to carry my musket caps in on the rare occasions when I am actually using something that requires a musket cap. This may be slightly a little of the subject of GH's post but in NSSA competition the use of cappers is prohibited in matches.
 
I use a musket nipple and cap on little bitty .45 cal FIE pistol. Only reason is cause I had a gun that used musket caps and when it was gone I had the nipple and a bunch of caps. But enough of why.

Let me suggest that there really is no reason to expect any superior performance from the musket cap over the #11 regardless of which powder you select. When I pop a cap to clear the nipple before shooting, the musket caps make no more bang than a #11.

All I'm saying is that accuracy tests and a chronograph might show the musket caps to be inferior to #11 caps. Not saying it's so, mind you, just saying it could be so.
 
real BP is easier to clean up after than Pyro - and my .50's shoot better groups and ignite better also. I ran pound of 'P' pyro through them and found out. Pyro does do well in revolvers however. I think it must have something to do with the compression of the charge in a revolver. it still is harder to clean than BP in them though.
 
Hawk I have a TC New Englander that has seen about every combination of powder and projectile one can stuff down the bore. I have shot real BP,Pyro P and RS,777 ffg and fffg andBlack Mag BM-3. I have shot round ball,conicals and even a few saboted pistol bullets. I use a Hot Shot nipple with Remington or CCI #11 standard caps.Never had a problem with ignition,and never saw the need for musket caps.Some people seem to think hotter ignition is necessary,I don't happen to be one of them.
 
musket caps are much more expensive than ol #11s. I see no advantage in them and certainly no reason to spend the extra money.
Old Charlie
 
I have used Pyrodex years ago in my WMC in .54 with plain ol # 11 caps and never had an issue with ignition.
I only use real BP these days.
 
A reply to all: Thanks for all the input. :hatsoff:

I believe I will go back to the #11s caps...till they show me that I need to change. If I do my part and they do thiers, it should be a quality relationship. I have a nice order of BP coming and still have a significant amount of #11s tins.

We shall see

Thanks
 

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