Complete newbie

[mojohand]

Hi. I am very new to BP shooting. So new I. Fact I don't yet have rifle. That Is something I intend to remedy soon though. I will be going to a local shoot tomorrow and hope to get some info and insite. I am partial to flintlock. What's a good rifle to get things started? I don't just want to go on price, but don' t have the $1500-2000 for a nice custom rifle. I have been looking on line at the Lyman GPR and the Peresolli brand guns. Ay advice would be appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[Moose Guide]

I have always liked the GPR, it looks very much like the originals I have seen! Welcome!

 

[jethro224]

The Lyman is an accurate shooter. The lock geometry isn't the best but it's not too bad. If you go with a GPR the first thing I would do is throw out the cut flint that comes with it and get some 3/4" square black English flints, install the flint with an extra piece of thick leather under the flint, and drill the touch hole out to 1/16".
The second thing I would do is replace the adjustable rear sight that comes on the rifle with the fixed primitive rear sight. You'll need to do a bit of light peening to get it to fit right but the sight picture is much better to my eye.
I would also recommend the .54 over the .50 caliber.

Lots of guys like their Pedersoli rifles too. I don't have any experience with them. :idunno:

Going to that local shoot is a very good plan. Talk to the guys there. I'm pretty sure they will be more than willing to give a newbie some help getting started. The presence and advice of an experienced shooter can be most helpful, especially with a flintlock.

And keep reading and asking questions here on the forum. There are some really great members here with tons of knowledge to share. :thumbsup:

Welcome. :hatsoff:

 

[Sunkmanitu Tanka]

Like Jethro said! going to a local shoot is the best thing you can do... steal with your eyes, ask any question that comes to mind - look at all the accoutrements they use ... If you are lucky some one may let you shoot a few times ... Have fun and welcome to the "black side of shootin"

 

[Matt85]

dont personally have one but thats onley cause ive got a custom on the way. if i was restricted to a factory flinter it would be a Lyman GPR:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/542/3/LYMAN-GPR-54-F

PS: please dont shoot conicals out of it!!

-matt

 

[Walks with fire]

Welcome to the forum. Your about to enter into a very enjoyable hobby and pastime. You can go in many directions with this sport and have plenty of enjoyment no matter which path you choose.

There are many new and used production guns that would serve you for an entry level rifle and they are very reasonably priced and for the most part quite reliable.

There are questions you need to ask yourself before you start looking for your first gun. Do you want to hunt with it, what size game are you after, target shoot only, what periods are you interested in if any such as civil war period or mountain man period. Do you live in the East or West where long or short shots are the normal distances? What barrel length and what caliber do you want and what projectile do you want to shoot?

I do it for extra deer hunting time here in PA. My choice is a flintlock shooting patched round ball; but I have faster twist barrels for using other projectiles. I prefer to shoot ball because it just kinda belongs for lack of a better term. Most of my shooting is .50 caliber but I have interest in dabbling with .54 and .58 and have bought some parts but no working gun yet. Our flintlock only deer season gives me a chance to hunt on snow usually and the woods are not filled with hunters like in centerfire season. The deer have calmed down to their normal patters and movements and the snow allows you to learn alot about their movement; I just love the season and it doesn't get any better than a flinter shooting patched ball.

I would suggest an older TC PA Hunter flintlock with a non QLA barrel in 1/66 twist. There are also some Hawken and Renegade models that you may prefer. I have never owned a Lyman rifle but I hear they are nice. There are shorter Deerstalker models and longer barreled Great Plains rifles. There are production smoothbores as well in the used market.

You will enjoy this site and don't be afraid to ask questions here. Good luck to you and be careful to learn how to use black powder safely.

 

[ebiggs1]

My personal opinion is a used TC Hawken or Lyman GPR. I would not buy a Pedersoli, Traditions or CVA first off.
I can't imagine it but there is a chance you won't like flintlocks. That chance is small but does exist.:shocked2: You will have the least start-up issues with either the TC and/or GPR.
You may find that either is all you want or need, too as both are capable guns.
Also I would not buy a long barreled gun, longer than 32”, before you try it. I found out too late they aren't for me.
And so it begins...................................... :grin:

 

[MSW]

I agree with Jethro244. I wouldn't trade my T/C for anything, but with S&W taking over T/C, i hear rumblings about their customer service department which, before the S&W thing, set the standard for service anywhere in the world... now they're in a state of flux and it doesn't seem to be getting better.

I've wanted a drop-in .54 in flint for my Renegade, as well as a 20 guage, but these are now cost prohibitive and i doubt Green Mountain will get back to making them once the war in the 'stan winds down (not trying to get political, but don't hold your breath).

Anyway, I'd go with a .54 Lyman in flint. Get Black English or some of Rich Pierce's flints- the 'flints' they send with factory rifles are an abomination and aren't even worth the trouble to throw out, IMHO.

Don't bore out touch holes until you try the gun and see if it works the way it is - if it doesn't, then get out your drill set. Also, there are a number of aftermarket touch hole liners which can be screwed into the threads- many of these will greatly improve the performance of the lock, but as I said- try the original before you get all wrapped around the axle with fixing what ain't broke.

You'll need FFFg 'real' blackpowder, and you can use 3F to prime the pan, too. Don't even try the "subs," because they will not ignite (or won't ignite fast enough) to give you a satisfactory result. (Real BP ignites at about 430 degrees, whereas the subs crank out at about 750 - someone correct me if my numbers are wrong - so while subs such as Pyrodex or 777 will work fine in caplocks, they just don't get-'er-done in a rockbanger).

Other stuff you absolutely can't live without:

:wink:

I'd see if you can contact Dutch Schoultz http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
and get a copy of his paper (i used to call it a monograph, but he asked me not to, so it's a "paper") which will explain how to get the maximum accuracy out of your rifle. If you follow his method, your groups will shrink. If your groups do not shrink, you're not following the method, you're so klutzy that you probably can't get the thing loaded, you're infested with buzzers from the planet Muton, you belong to Handgun Control Inc., or you're already such a great shot that it doesn't matter. The paper costs, if i recall, thirty five bucks, which sounds like a lot for a pamphlet, but if you consider what an hour of coaching would set you back (assuming you could find one), it's really a good deal.

You will want a short starter, a powder measure, a range rod, a few spare flints, a few spare flint leathers (i won't go near the lead vs. leather flintwrap thing - it's been raging since they invented the flintlock mechanism, and will continue to be argued along with who really shot Kennedy and the location of Jimmy Hoffa - suffice it to say that if you're curious, try each method and see what works best in your particular rifle) ... you will end up trying a few different sized balls before you settle on a load which works best for you: check out track of the Wolf and see what they have by way of sizes, then, once you have a diameter which patterns well in your rifle, you may want to invest in a mold and a small casting pot and run your own ball - much cheaper than paying Hornady to do it: spend the money you save on more powder ... also patch and cleaning material ... soap & warm water works well for me, but there are a zillion 'secret recipie' formulae out there, along with an even greater number of methods for patch lube. Targets, a stapler, earplugs, something to protect your eyes, a lefthanded smokeshifter, a bucket of blackness, some handwipes for when your hands get grubby (baby wipes work fine - seriously, you probably don't want to track the residue into your vehicle).

There, that should spend all of your money and now

go make good smoke!

(ok - that's the end of the rant)

 

[Billnpatti]

For quality for the money, you can't beat a Lyman GPR. It is well made, accurate and the closest of any commercial rifles to the original plains rifles. If you are just starting out in black powder, unless you have the patience and drive to master a flintlock, they can be rather discouraging. They are more demanding than a caplock. I always recommend a caplock for a beginer since they are simpler to operate. However, if you really want a flintlock, they are addicting and a lot of fun to shoot. If you are going to be shooting with experienced flintlock shooters, they will make it easy for you to learn.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

For quality for the money, you can't beat a Lyman GPR. It is well made, accurate and the closest of any commercial rifles to the original plains rifles. If you are just starting out in black powder, unless you have the patience and drive to master a flintlock, they can be rather discouraging. They are more demanding than a caplock. I always recommend a caplock for a beginer since they are simpler to operate. However, if you really want a flintlock, they are addicting and a lot of fun to shoot. If you are going to be shooting with experienced flintlock shooters, they will make it easy for you to learn.

Although the Lyman GPR is a great "plains-type" rifle to start with, I really have to disagree with the recommendation for a new BP user to start off with a caplock. Nothing could be farther from the truth in my opinion.

You are far better to start off with a local mentor and a flintlock. Otherwise you'll have to save up your money twice to finally get the flintlock you originally wanted and, once you start using it, you won't go back to the caplock ("Why did I buy this thing?"). Flintlocks are just too darn much fun!

Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

***SNIP***
Also I would not buy a long barreled gun, longer than 32”, before you try it. I found out too late they aren't for me.
And so it begins...................................... :grin:

I'd have to disagree a bit with that barrel length statement. I think ebiggs is coming from the direction of a straight barrel which is common on production rifles. My first flintlock rifle was a Traditions Pennsylvania rifle with a 40¼" long barrel. It is a straight octagon barrel and is very definitely nose-heavy. Once I finally labored through all the nuances of this gun I found it to be a very good shooter but I didn't like the nose heavy feel either. Some people like that feel as they believe it helps them stay on target better. Personally, I usually just find something to lean it against such as a tree limb which are very common in the hardwoods around here. Then it is no longer "nose heavy". Another nice thing about the longer barrel is that it is easier to be accurate with them because of the long sighting plane (distance between front and rear sights).

However, having said that, I never use my Traditions longrifle anymore. After finding out I should have saved my money and bought the right thing the first time, I purchased an historically accurate Early Lancaster longrifle in .50 cal. from tg here on the forum. The barrel on this rifle is 44½" long, but it is a "swamped" barrel. That means it is a tapered barrel from the breech until about 8" from the end and then it swells up again. It's a bit like an hourglass turned on its side but the waist is closer to the muzzle than the breech. This type of barrel puts the balance point of the rifle right back into your hand, so the rifle is easy to aim and to hold for off-hand shooting. Much easier to acquire and hold the target with my Early Lancaster than it is with my Traditions rifle and my Lancaster has a barrel 4" longer than the Traditions. So I really like the longer barrels.

I don't think there's much argument though about a 32" straight barrel being easier to shoot off-hand than a longer straight barrel. I wouldn't make that same statement when comparing to a swamped barrel. Bad news is that you have to get a gun built to get a swamped barrel as none of the production guns that I'm aware of have it.

Also before you count a long barrel out, you should look at where and how you are going to shoot it. If you are going to shoot it primarily from a rest at a firing range or from a tree limb while hunting, then the longer barrel is no problem. If you are going to be hunting where there is a lot of open land and a tree limb is not a logical and convenient place to rest the barrel while shooting and your shooting is going to be primarily "off-hand" shots, then follow ebiggs advice on barrels, or get a rifle with a long "swamped" barrel.

Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff:

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Used TC's are on gunbroker (usually in one piece) and on ebay (never in one piece). If I could though, I'd hit up or call some pawn shops in PA since it's "flintlock ONLY there" and see what kind of deal you can find.

I bought a flinter off gunbroker last month and got burned on the deal. I think I can fix it though.

Greg

 

[stormcrow]

Since you are new to the sport, I would suggest that you look into a new Lyman or TC unless you are very comfortable with what and who you are buying from. Any savings from buying used will quickly become not worth it if there are unforeseen problems with a used gun. Just about everything you would ever need to know about firing flinters can be found somewhere on this forum so if you like them then get one. As the saying goes, it takes a day to learn and a lifetime to master. Save room in your budget or time to make the right starting accessories. Items like a proper range rod can be invaluable to your shooting experience.