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Clip on rear sight

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Hey guys
Some of you may have seen the article in the Jan/Feb Muzzleloader by Stan Lance about a clip on rear sight he made for his fowling gun. His accuracy improvement shooting roundball with the sight impressed me. The fact that I could clip it in for deer and take it off for shooting shot for small game is convenient. I know a rear sight on a fowling gun is blasphemy to some of my friends here but don’t be too rough on me. If I’m hunting being accurate and ensuring a humane kill is more important to me than historical correctness.
Does anybody know of a company that manufactures something like this?
And if one of you suggests I should practice more and I won’t need a rear sight give me your phone number and you can explain to my wife why I need more shooting time😁
 
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As interesting as Stan's article was, I have to observe that many smoothbore shooters shoot more accurately without a rear sight than he did with one. For example, you may want to look at some of the [smoothbore] targets listed here: ALR January 2021 target match [ please note add on ]
That’s pretty cool. Sometimes in our hobby we come across things that defy logic. Thanks much.
 
The last woods walk I shot at a rendezvous I entered twice; once with my .62 rifle and once with my .62 follower. The fowler had no rear sight, of course, When the day was done, I had outshot myself with the fowler by 2 points. I guess it fits me pretty well...

ADK Bigfoot
 
I will qualify myself by stating that I have never owned, nor shot to any degree, a smoothbore muzzleloader.

That being said, I have been reading about them voraciously for many years now in anticipation of one day owning one. Progressive osteoarthritis in both shoulders says that probably isn't going to happen, but the dream persists.

Many posters will tell you that their weapon is capable of rifle-like accuracy out to (x-number of yards); some will tell you 100 yards. Others, will swear that no matter how much time they have spent on finding the right load, they just don't trust themselves to hunt deer with it.

Now, anybody that is in the know, is well aware that modern m-l rifle barrels that are poorly made/defective are quite rare. A rifle barrel that WON'T SHOOT is very, very rare.

So, why the seemingly HUGE difference in accuracy between modern smoothbore barrels, and modern rifle barrels when stocked up into a gun?

Number one, and my pet theory, is that the average modern smoothbore barrel is too heavy/thick-walled, which is somehow affecting the barrel's harmonics as the ball, or shot column, is traveling down the length of the bore before exiting.

People that purchase a smoothbore with a historically correct barrel profile as regards to bore size vs barrel wall thickness, virtually never complain about not being able to get their gun to shoot accurately.

Most barrel makers are using a single profile to bore out, and ream, 28 gauge, 24 gauge, 20 gauge, and 16 gauge barrels. A 12 gauge usually gets its own profile.

A lot of this has to do for the CONVENIENCE of the pre-inlet stock manufacturers. These companies DID NOT want to have to carry separate stocks in all of the wood types/grades for .32, .36, .40, .45, .50, .54, .58, and .62 calibers. So, they asked the barrel companies to "standardize" on the "A", "B", "C", and "D" letter profiles for rifle barrels that we have now. And, those letter profiles transferred over to smoothbores as the barrel companies compromised on bore sizes/gauges by just not rifling one of the larger rifle bore diameters that corresponded approximately to one of the smaller gauges/bore diameters.

Number two, is that there are far more variables in getting a smoothbore to shoot well, compared to a rifle. And, most posters having trouble seem to have difficulty just CHANGING ONE VARIABLE AT A TIME. If you change more than one thing at a time, then isolating what is giving you fits becomes FAR more difficult.

Third, and this does not seem to be talked about a lot, but I get the "sense" from having read thousands of these posts over the last 7-8 years, that most people having trouble getting their smoothbore to shoot well, ARE NOT keeping a high-quality, accurate, log book of what they are trying to accomplish.

Forth, is when someone here, or over on ALR, makes a suggestion of how to correct a perceived problem; the advice is often "interpreted" by the recipient of the advice. In other words, they chose to PUT THEIR OWN SPIN ON IT. Sometimes, the hardest thing to do is to follow someone elses advice EXACTLY.

You see this most often with the "SkyChief Load". Someone chimes in on a thread, or starts their own, to complain about the SkyChief Load not working at all, making things worse than their standard load, or only improving their standard load a little bit.

Come to find out, 99.999999999% of the time, they changed one, or more of the components in the SkyChief Load. Even when it states right up front, "Follow the instructions EXACTLY, and DON'T deviate from ANY of the components". People still change something, and then complain. The SkyChief Load is totally counter-intuitive. It makes NO SENSE, ballistically. But, it seems to work, if the recipe is followed exactly.

Fifth, and finally, smoothbores are "supposed to be finicky & hard to shoot" That's because EVERYBODY SAYS SO!!!. If you go into shooting a smoothbore thinking it's gonna be a ain-in-the-pass, then the chances are that's just what you are going to experience.
Nobody told me at 17 years old that shooting my first muzzleloader, a .45 caliber, flintlock longrifle, was going to be hard. That's because I was completely self-taught, with no mentor(s). Nobody to piss on my blanket, whisper into my ear to NOT FLINCH, when the powder in the pan ignites. I just loaded it, aimed it, pulled the trigger, got used to the lag time compared to a .22 long rifle, and never developed a flinch.

People hear, and read all these smoothbore "horror stories", and EXPECT to find it difficult to find a load that shoots well.

Having a positive attitude to start with, assembling as many component choices up front as possible before starting load testing, keeping an accurate log book, and only changing 1 thing at a time. These are all important things to do starting out with any gun, but especially with a smoothbore's many variables. And, knowing that you just might have to spend a year, many pounds of powder/lead, before you can feel comfortable at whatever your personal ethical range is for hunting.
 
That’s pretty cool. Sometimes in our hobby we come across things that defy logic. Thanks much.

R.J. Bruce's last paragraph bears reading: Having a positive attitude to start with, assembling as many component choices up front as possible before starting load testing, keeping an accurate log book, and only changing 1 thing at a time. These are all important things to do starting out with any gun, but especially with a smoothbore's many variables. And, knowing that you just might have to spend a year, many pounds of powder/lead, before you can feel comfortable at whatever your personal ethical range is for hunting.

Also, lots of practice with roundball loads, paying particular attention to "cheek weld" on the stock and the height of the front sight vis a vis the target will produce 25 yd. groups at least as small as Stan Lance's and likely smaller in spite of the absence of a rear sight. My trade gun, for example, lacks a rear sight, but I've become quite used to that and have come to prefer it to a fully sighted gun.
IMG_6376.jpeg


Btw, that's a 50 yd. target shot from a rest + rear bag.
 
Rear sight on a Fowler....Noooooooo!!!

Thats one of the reasons we had a Fowler built or bought used was to shoot both shot/rb and no rear sight as they are a different animal to shoot. Now i enjoy my rifled flinters but man do i love my Fowler! Yes their are limitations and the limitations are on the person shooting it more then the gun. You say you want a clean accurate humain kill well...if you can only shoot well enough to whatever distance then so be it, if its 40 yards then learn judging distance and don’t shoot past it. Just because you have a rear sight doesn’t always mean a perfect shot. You need to figure out head placement on stock, sight picture, FOLLOW THROUGH, FOLLOW THROUGH, FOLLOW THROUGH, and load development. Yes it will take time but the rewards are well worth it. It took me time but once i figured it out and do my part i shoot very well. My best shooting was on a woods walk. Their were about 20 or so shooters and only 5 of us had Fowlers. I took 2nd place with 17 out of 20 hits and a couple of the other guys shot better then the guys with rifled guns. It was a great feeling and a lot of guys just couldn’t believe they can be that accurate. Heck a couple weeks ago i shot a fixed blade hunting knife of my buddies he had stuck in a target frame at 25ish yards. The knife was in the wood so when looking at it the cutting edge was facing away so the profile was small. Told my other buddy i’m going to shot it. He said no way not without a rear sight...well i nailed it broke it in half where the blade and handle meet. I turned, smiled then said who needs a rear sight!

Now you just need to shoot more and to help you with your wife it’s very simple...tell here a rear sight can not be put on a Fowler so you need more range time to be accurate. The other option is tell her in order for a smoothbore to have a rear sight you would need to have a smoothrifle built and that will cost a heck of a lot more money so range time is cheaper!!! Oh and don’t tell her that you can add a rear sight to any gun cause then you will blow you chance on either option. Anyway, do what you want and what makes you feel more comfertible and enjoy your Fowler!!!...but keep at it and you will surpise your self as to how well you can shoot it!
 
I'd never tell someone not to to shoot the way that they like, with or without a rear sight. I can only say what my experience with my fusil de chasse is, if it helps you decide on a rear sight. Excluding bow season, I've been hunting with my smooth bore for the past 6 years. Took 2 bear, 4 deer, 6 gobblers and a bunch of squirrels. Now that I got the hang of shooting it, a rear sight would just mess things up and get in the way. With that being said, it was a rough first couple of hours my first time shooting the FDC. I figured out that it's not a rifle and it shouldn't be fired like one, it's instinctive, more like wing shooting is with a shotgun or shooting a longbow. Both eyes open, focus is on the point of impact, shoulder the gun exactly the same with the same cheek weld every time and when the front blade is on the poi squeeze the trigger, no aiming. It's all muscle memory and only repetition can create that. One other thing that I figured out is that shooting off of a rest on a bench is bad, you can't get the form and muscle memory needed leaning into a "rifle" rest . I have my comfortable limits, 75 yards, I'll stretch that to 100 for a bear only because they're a bigger and more easy to see. The last gobbler that I killed I step off about 37 yards, so that's my max. My experience with loads are that shot loads take some work. Round ball load not so much, but it will with sights like any rifle. The only bad thing I can say about my FDC is that it made my unmentionables safe queens and my flintlock rifles target rifles except my .32, I love shooting squirrels with that. Keep at it, you wont be disappointed when it all clicks. I didn't mean to be so long winded. Good luck.
 
I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like, and no where near as much as I used to. The big key to shooting accurately with no rear sight is practice. Mostly because one needs the gun mounted with the same relationship between the eye (which is now your rear sight) and the front sight every time. Many variables can change this. Just your position alone can make a difference. If you practice in a standing position until your accuracy is what you want for your chosen game,,, what happens when that shot at game has you leaning or twisting more than you were at the range, or maybe now you are sitting. Not to mention how much heavier clothing can effect all this.
Unless one gets to shoot quite a bit, in a lot of different positpositions, all year to include different clothing, a rear sight seems like a good idea to me.

Can anyone take and post a picture of the sight un the article, I don't get any magazines anymore.
Thanks
 
Many years ago there was a stick on rear sight for modern shotguns to use when deer hunting. Although plastic it was almost identical to the clip on being discussed.
 
I have a rear sight on my fowler turkey gun, I know where the center of the pattern is in relation to the sight and want to put it right on the head of a turkey if I get a shot. The sight draws me back to earth in the heat of the battle as well when that bird or deer is coming in, no spray and pray shots.

I have too many flintlocks to shoot (is that possible) and don't get around to the fowler near enough, the rear sight is a must for me to be proficient.

Here I was testing different sized balls at 25 yards, my fowler definitely likes .700 balls, the X marked holes are from another gun. I was shooting 100 gr of 1F and a .025 denim patch. One of those thick PAST strap-on shoulder recoil pads is definitely my friend.

fowler small size ball target.jpg
100_4852.JPG
 
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A rear sight is great if you deer hunt and terrible if you shoot bird on the wing. For those of you who just hunt ever smaller bunches of holes in paper, either one will work just fine in the end. That said, a guy who can make small groups with no rear sight likely can shoot lights out with a rear sight. As a matter of fact, I think a man would be a much better shooter faster if they were first taught to shoot without a rear sight. I've seen so many frustrated shooters who've shot for years without ever realizing the critical importance of consistent cheek weld (eye position) in regards to POI.
 
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When I started out in m-l in 1971 at age 17, I had lousy eyesight. Not bad enough that in 1972, while the war in Vietnam was still going on, to prevent me from being accepted for enlistment. Family intervention stopped that idea.

But, bad enough that four years later in 1976, with the war ended, that my eyesight was reason for rejection.

I purchased my first m-l, a .45 caliber, GAA, brass-mounted, Lancaster, flintlock longrifle in 1971, at age 17.

I managed fairly respectable shooting with that rifle, averaging 1.5"-2", 5-shot groups on a consistent basis at 50 yards. With LOUSY EYESIGHT. Coke bottle lenses in my glasses. Had I been able to deer hunt then I had already imposed a limit of 50 yards as my max range due to my vision.

It was love at first sight between me and that first rifle. I can only say that the Lord God was watching out for a gung ho kid, that had too much enthusiasm for his own good. With the exception of an adjustable brass powder measure, a DGW iron scissors ball mold, cleaning jags, flints, and black powder, I made from scratch everything else, purchasing only the raw materials to do so.

Serendipity led me to a powder, patch, lube, and home cast 0.445" diameter ball, that by the 2nd, or 3rd shooting session had me able to shoot for hours without once having to clean the bore with any kind of a wet patch.

Pushing the burnt, spent fouling, moist from my blowing down the barrel (that's what they told us to do in those days, and it WORKS), down on top of the fresh powder charge by the new, well-lubed, patched ball that TIGHTLY fits the bore. Completely sealing all around the ball, filling the grooves.

In retrospect, if I had known about the easily made, tang-mounted, peep sights that so many older shooters are moving to, now that their aging eyesight is as bad as my youthful eyesight was; I would have put one on that rifle in a heartbeat.

Because, NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT THE MUSTARD, the sole object of any weapon is TO BE ABLE TO HIT THE TARGET THAT YOU ARE AIMING AT!!!!!!

So, forget about historical correctness, forget about nostalgia, forget about what your ancestors did all those years ago (mine didn't do SQUAT, because they were downtrodden peasants in Germany).

If circumstances dictate that YOU NEED, not want, but ACTUALLY REQUIRE, a rear sight on a fowler......
then put a rear sight on the fowler. Look at the Lowell Haarer style tang-mounted peep/ghost ring rear sight that only requires a slightly longer tang bolt to install. No modifications to the profile/barrel of your smoothbore. And, for most older shooters, a far better choice than a barrel-mounted rear sight.

You're still gonna need to practice like crazy. A consistent cheek weld, and being able to shoulder the weapon the same way, regardless of field position will BE KEY TO ONES SUCCESS. A rear sight won't eliminate that.
 
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20210113_101742.jpg

British Long Land pattern - with a buckhorn and a drop of epoxy.
Without a rear sight - I very rarely ever bothered to take it out of the gun room.
With a rear sight - it gets regular use - out to 100 yards I can easily hit a B-27 in the vitals. (.735 round ball and .015 patch)
So what's better - a gun in the safe that you don't like to shoot or a 10 minute mod on a gun you love to shoot?
Most here know I AM NOT a PC\HC nut job, I just enjoy shooting and hunting with traditional BP technology.
I do have one traditional style gun with NO SIGHTS AT ALL!
20200417_130307.jpg
 
TRS hakenbuchse?
:thumb:
One the most fun projects I have ever done.
Simple to finish and and a real riot to shoot.
I cut the supplied bands down to 1/2 width cause they looked funny.
I took the barrel-hook to a friend and had him gas weld the hook to the barrel. Now it's actually functional.
Finished with Tung oil on the tiller and Mark Lee Brown #2 for the metal.
At 25 yards (after a lot of trial and error) hitting a 8x11 sheet of paper is easy pickings.
20200421_100636.jpg

(I apologize to the OP for the thread HIJACK..... My Bad......)
 
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