Charleville

[DBrown]

I would like to get in shoot a musket like the charleville. Can someone list links of what all i need?

 

[bnail]

that's a tall request DBrown.

do you have your musket yet?
1777 charleville
1766 charleville
charleville kit

check out a few suppliers for your accessories
there's too many to list, but these two come to mind.

Track of the wolf
log cabin shop

 

[DBrown]

No. I was wondering if i really wanted to get it to it, and spend all that money

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

From what I've read, the Charleville seems like a good choice. The barrel bands appear to enhance accuracy, at least from what I've read. It's easier to take a Charleville apart to clean. So what type of Charleville would you like?

 

[bnail]

No. I was wondering if i really wanted to get it to it, and spend all that money

someone might be able to direct you to a good used musket, or you can check out the Indian made models, though I can't recommend them as I have no experience with them:
MVTC

Loyalist arms

because you posted this in the rifle section, I have to ask. . . do realize that the Charlevilles I linked to are smoothbore muskets?

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

If you decide you like it, a Charleville floats by fairly frequently in the used market, either on this page or at Track of the Wolf.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/489/1/AAI-831

My thought...and merely my opinion...is that you may wish to wait until you see a M-1766 as these were the guns used by American forces in the Revolution. The Italian-made Pedersolis are rather common because of living history/reenacting and from what I've read have a great reputation for accuracy and reliability. The India-made guns are suspect in some circles but seem to work ok if most of what you shoot is blanks.

I can't find a lot of documentation that the Model 1777 was used a lot over here, though.

On this forum I've read a decent number of reports from 1766 Pedersoli users who take their guns afield for real-world hunting, with great effect. Also these guns appear to retain value nicely.

I'm just a relative beginner so others may have more to add.

 

[DBrown]

No. I was wondering if i really wanted to get it to it, and spend all that money

someone might be able to direct you to a good used musket, or you can check out the Indian made models, though I can't recommend them as I have no experience with them:
MVTC


Yes i just noticed my mistake.

Loyalist arms

because you posted this in the rifle section, I have to ask. . . do realize that the Charlevilles I linked to are smoothbore muskets?

 

[bnail]

I second Wakhachim's advice.
you wont be disappointed with the Charleville, with the possible exception of the Indian versions. In my opinion they lack the finesse of a true charleville and will be quite a bit heavier.
are you interested in reenacting or just shooting?

 

[DBrown]

I second Wakhachim's advice.
you wont be disappointed with the Charleville, with the possible exception of the Indian versions. In my opinion they lack the finesse of a true charleville and will be quite a bit heavier.
are you interested in reenacting or just shooting?

Both.

 

[bnail]

check out perdersoli's website. nice images, and good specs. if you see something you like then you can seek out a dealer.
here's their 1763; click on the picture to get the specs:

 

[crockett]

DBrown- maybe others are missing the point. Do you want to "try out" shooting a musket to see if you like it before putting down substantial money to buy one???
The reason I ask is because I think a lot of us have a similar feeling but maybe about other firearms. I have thought it would be great if there was some sort of a get together where everyone could shoot each other's firearms to see if they like them. Having to buy a firearm before even knowing whether you'll like it- can get expensive.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Good advice from Crockett! If you can find a local club through the National Muzzleloading Association or through this forum, try the gun out first! Unless you walk in bragging and abusive, most people will let you try their smokepoles. My approach has been to admit that I am getting started and never hesitate to ask for help.

I have made some mistakes in my own first few years by not realizing that for some reason which I don't understand, some types of guns fit me and some don't. It would have saved me a lot of money if I had shot them first.

And you do realize that the Charleville is a smoothbore, right?

 

[DBrown]

I was just wondering what size patches and balls would i need. Also how many grains would be necessary for shooting the musket?

 

[ericb]

Great Musket - as is the Bess. I have a '77, and love it, but then, I cut my teeth on an original 1795 Springfield many, many years ago. The is much to learn - do an Archive search, and you'll find plenty. Along with Military Musketry goes the Paper Cartridge; there have been many good posts on the Forum and there are some good pics also. One word of advice: if you're considering a '66 note the high Comb on most of the modern repros. While not historically incorrect, it can be a Bona Fide Cheek Cracker. As badly as I wanted an early "Rev War" gun, the high Comb on the Pedersoli '66 convinced me to go with the '77, which had a lower Comb and a slight hollow on the Cheek. It points like a Fowler, & I can shoot full service loads all day and never really notice the recoil. Buy the best you can afford - new or used. There's no shame whatsoever in a used gun, especially a Military one. (I never, ever, drew a new weapon from the Arms Room, and they all served me well). But I will tell you my own personal experience prohibits me from recommending an Indian Gun to you. That particular subject has been beaten to death here - you need only do a search.

You have quite a journey ahead - keep us posted...

Eric

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Ericb:

I've wondered about that cheek comb. What else is different in the shooting experience between the '66 and the '77? Does anyone else have experience managing that '66 stock? Do you hold your head back or is it just a question of hannging in there and enduring? Thanks.

Also the historically accurate way to shoot these guns appears to be using paper cartridges out of a cartridge box like this http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/422/1/BAG-US-1767.

Search this site and you'll find several threads which pretty much cover it. What diameter ball?

 

[ericb]

I never shot a Hi-Comb '66, but I got to handle a Pedersoli, and that was enough for me. Wonderful gun, but I knew it wouldn't work for me. The Comb was right in my face, and, though I don't "squinny down" the tube like I do a Rifle, it was difficult for me to get down on the piece at all. But I knew without tryin' that that Hi-Comb was gonna bust my face. But everyone is built & shoots different. Always try to handle a gun before you buy - what's good for the Goose ain't necessarily what works for the Gander.

Generally speaking, think Fowler or Shotgun when shooting an unsighted Musket. Look at contemporary Art of Soldiers of the period & you'll see they are often portrayed "Heads Up". When I show modern shooters my Musket they always try to bring it up like a modern Rifle, and they comment on how awkward it is. But when I show them the classical Heads-Up stance, and put the words "think Shotgun; think Grouse" in their ears, it's a whole new ballgame, and then they remark about "how well she points"!

FWIW in my '77 I shoot a Paper Cartridge .662 ball with 85/90gr 2f, which works best for me. I usually shoot 40/50 rounds a session, and the word "endure" doesn't even come to mind. It's simply a Ball to shoot.

The subject of the '66 Hi-Comb came up here recently, and some of our Resident Scholars pointed out that the '66 went thru a lot of modifications and variations, and far from all of them were Hi-Combed, but most of the Modern Repros are.

reaper Cartridges - again, do a Forum Search - more good info & pics than can be posted here...

Eric

 

[Tumblernotch]

Yes there were a lot of variations from the '63 all the '77 and none of them had very high combs, especially like the repro '63 Pedersoli that Skagan posted.

 

[CrackStock]

Not wanting to be too nosy, but how do you intend to use this musket? Some people want wall hangers; others want to shoot blanks during reenactments; some want to live fire and some want to hunt. What you will want in a musket and accouterments will be driven by your intended use more than anything else. For example accurate shooting vs rapid volley fire will may well change the ball size that you choose and loading processes. If you are wanting to hunt large game, you might only carry a few balls, wads, measure and a small powder horn, but if you are doing speed shooting competitions, you might want a cartridge box and the ability to roll your own cartridges.

Depending upon what is available in your area, I suggest that you look for a reenacting group to meet for an event. Most of these groups are happy to teach you and let you fire a musket. It is how they interest new members. This way you can learn a bit about the various musket options and how they are properly used.

Location is pretty important for this, but someone might be able to help you if you give a ballpark area. I shot many Rev War muskets while living in the Carolinas before purchasing one from that time period.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

While you are at it, you might try a fusil du chasse. I was surprised at how comfortable those guns are, and how well they point. Has anyone else fired a fusil and a Charleville, and how did they compare for you? I have a turkey neck so maybe it's just me.

 

[Yancey von Yeast]

I would suggest that you look for a well loved Navy Arms 1766 Charleville. They were sold as model 1763's, but they were really model 1766's.

I have experience with Navy Arms, Pedersoli, and originals. Both as a shooter and a gunsmith. The Pedersoli's are quality guns but they don't look much like an original.

As previously stated, the high comb is an impediment to shooting and downright silly. The 1777 is an ok musket but is a bit heavier than the 1766. Sadly, Navy Arms does not make their 1763/6 anymore. They had nicer combs on the stocks. Idealy, one would take one of those and slim it down to match the originals. I have done this dozens of times for people. One can do some very fine shooting with one of those.

As someone else said, they do appear on the used arms market from time to time. I learned to shoot on one of the Navy Arms muskets when I was 12.

This page:
http://www.jaegerkorps.org/NRA/The Revolutionary Charleville.htm

is a wonderful tutorial on early French Muskets. Compare the Pedersoli with the original on this page and you will see my point.

Good luck!
Yancey