Cap and ball pistol questions.

[barebackjack]

Well I got my new pietta 1860 army today. Awesome, hefty piece of hardware. Cant wait to shoot it. :grin:

A few questions.

Ive been just playing with it here in the living room. The fit of all parts seems great (but im no expert) and it seems to function properly. I keep hearing of "timing" in revolvers. Could someone please explain this to me?

What are your guys' loading procedures. Do you load each chamber completely till rotating to the next, or do you do it progressively, powder in all 6, wad in all 6, balls, and obviously caps last? Im looking at it from a safety first, than speed standpoint.

What kind of seating pressures should I look for? Im guessing you want to slightly compress the powder, but can you go to far?

Are there any other points I need to be aware of? Any tasty tips and techniques to a newbie for loading, shooting, and maintaining these types of weapons?

Thanks all!

 

[Robin Camp]

Timing, or more correctly, in time, simply means that every time you cock the hammer, the cylinder turns, to perfectly align the loaded chamber with the barrel....Robin

 

[Raider2000]

Like the Prophet said, the revolver is in time when you rotate the hammer back just prior to the first click the cylinder begins to rotate, you may or may not hear 2 other distinctive clicks just prior to the hammer placed at full firing position.
If when you have the hammer at full cock the chamber is dirrectly behind the barrel ready to fire & that there is no movement in the cylinder, then the revolver is in time & should give you many years of shooting enjoyment.

I normally load each chamber individually except the caps where they are done last for all loaded chambers.
First ofcorse having the chambers clean & dry, pour your measured powder charge into the chamber, then a lubricated wad if you wish or just the Ball/bullet over the powder charge.
If you have not used a wad over the powder charge & you are using Ball then smear some grease like Crisco over the ball of each loaded chambers.
Cap each loaded chamber & you are ready to shoot.

If you plan to carry your revolver loaded it is best to only load 5 shots & have the hammer on the empty chamber to prevent accidental firing.

As far as seating pressure, I usually press the bullet/ball into the chamber till it stops but not too much pressure "sortof a feel" trust me after the first few cylinders you'll know how much pressure to put on the lever especially if you have shot a rifle before.

The first time I would get to know your revolver & clean it completely by fully disassembling it, then oil the moving parts with your favorite oil but only use either Olive oil, Ballistol or the like for short term storage in the chambers & the bore to make things easire inbetween shootings "long term storage is fine to use Rem Oil or the like in the chambers & the bore, just clean them prior to using."

Light loads like 22gr. FFFG Goex & a Ball will mostly yield better groups than heavier charges or conical bullets will.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Good info here. I use a loading stand, which holds the revolver with the muzzle pointed up. I use the lever in an empty chamber so as to avoid spilling any powder as the cylinder can rotate in the half-cock position during loading. Powder-Patch (lubed wad), Ball. Then leave the rammer where You just rammed, then repeat as noted above.

20-25 grains should do the trick in the 1860 Army, with your best bet being 20-22 for best accuracy.

Enjoy!

Dave

 

[Mike 56]

:hatsoff:

 

[B. Miller]

For the best accuracy lower is better. I do not shoot an 1860 army but do shoot an 1851 navy and a Remington new army. The navy shoots best at 25 yds. with ten grains of triple F. The Remington likes 14.5 grains of triple F at 25 yds. The void in the cylinder chambers needs to be filled in and I use corn meal. I want the ball as close to the end of the cylinder so that it will still turn when you pull the hammer back. I do not use any wads but do cover the end of each chamber with a somewhat stiff home lube as I prefer the ball to drive the lube instead of a wander wad lubing after the ball has already gone down the barrel. When you get serious you will want to deal with the forcing cone and trigger pull. But until then go have fun with it. There is nothing like a black powder revolver. You really learn to appreciate those that had to use them.
Bruce

 

[barebackjack]

The void in the cylinder chambers needs to be filled in and I use corn meal. I want the ball as close to the end of the cylinder so that it will still turn when you pull the hammer back.
Bruce

What is the advantage of doing this?

 

[Cage Dodger]

I'm still kind of new at this, but let me try and answer and see if I've learned anything.

The purpose of the filler is twofold:
(1) to improve accuracy (the ball doesn't have to travel far to engage the rifling) and
(2) to give you a decent "pack" of the load with the loading lever (which will only reach so far into the cylinder).

I use corn meal also with good results.

Cage

 

[mykeal]

Some people feel that they get better accuracy if the ball is seated near the end of the chamber. Personally, I don't shoot well enough to be able to take advantage of the small increase in accuracy that they claim they get.

When a proper sized ball is pushed into the chamber a small ring of lead will be shaved off. This act is known as 'swaging' the ball; it slightly deforms the ball but ensures a complete gas seal. When the powder is ignited the gas pressure forces the ball forward; it moves up the chamber to the end where the swaged portion leaves the chamber. The flaming gas is free to enter the atmosphere at this point. The ball moves across the small gap between the cylinder face and the forcing cone and is then forced into the bore by the combination of it's own acceleration and to a lesser extent by the gas pressure.

Some folks feel that minimizing the distance the ball must move in the chamber before crossing the gap between the cylinder face and the forcing cone improves accuracy. The effect is to minimize the amount of time that friction in the chamber works against the ball moving forward; exactly how this improves accuracy isn't clear, but many very experienced and talented shooters feel the results are real and speak for themselves. While I don't fully understand it, and can't seem to make it work for me, I cannot argue that the effect isn't real; too many good shooters claim it is.

One short statement about timing: it's more than the chamber lining up with the bore at full cock. Timing is the entire process of cocking the hammer, the bolt moving down so the hand can move the cylinder, the trigger sear moving into the notch on the hammer, the trigger bolt spring snapping the bolt back into the cylinder when it drops off the hammer cam, thus stopping the cylinder rotation when it's aligned with the bore, etc. Many things happen simultaneously and in sequence to make the gun work properly. As, they say, timing is everything.

Finally, powder compression: you can compress real black powder and most synthetics as much as you want with no ill effects. The key is to be consistent and use the same amount of force each time. Compression does effect how the gas is released in the chamber, and thus how the gun shoots. There is, however, no single best amount of compression, and even if there was, no good way to measure if you're doing it 'right'. So, just be sure to do it the same way each time.

Having said that, I must add that 777 loose powder is sensitive to overcompression. If compressed too much it will sometimes fail to ignite. With 777 one should compress only enough to be sure the ball is seated against the powder column and no more.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I shoot 24gr 3fff in my 1860's in cowboy action shoots. I powder two chambers, then wad those chambers then seat those two with ball. Then I move on to the next two and repeat till the gun is loaded. I also use a wad that is long enough so when the ball is fully seated it's near the mouth of the cylinder. I found they are far more accurate this way.
I get my wads pre lubed from circle fly wads.

 

[FishDFly]

Not much to add that mykeal did not cover.

A couple of things that I was taught is to use Cream Of Wheat instead of corn meal. He said that COW does not compress, corn meal does.

Once the ideal load (grains of powder/ volume of COW) mark the loading lever so that each time the same amount of pressure on the ball is used.

I make make my own lubricant which was a mixture of beeswax, vasoline and mineral oil.
Some use Crisco, but it is too messy in hot weather and it goes everywhere.

If you notice a lot of people load 22 grains or 24.5 grains. Buy one of the TRESO adjustable pistol powder measures, it goes from 0 to 30 grains in one grain increments. The measure is a lot easier to use since it's small.

RDE