Black Powder Banned at my Gun Club!

[necchi]

removes the Ban. Otherwise, I’m going to have to join another Club a little further north.

I would anyways, it's obvious a shooter walked away and left something burning on something that was installed that "was" a nice feature.
If there is that level of incompetence with the clubs members,, I'd leave.
It's that simple.

 

[BillyC]

Where do you live sounds similar to the Ferry Brook Range in Keene NH; though I think there’s one fee 2 or 3 with a back groud check unless you have proof of a recent gun purchase.

I live just north of Pittsburgh, PA. A prospective new member has to be recommended by a member also.

 

[Joemolf]

I live just north of Pittsburgh, PA. A prospective new member has to be recommended by a member also.

Nice sounds very reasonable. I think the range I mentioned the town is some way involved. If I spent more time there Id join but right now I can’t justify that much money for a membership I would barely use. I shoot my flintlocks on my property. I’d like to shoot my 9mm more but besides the cost of ammo it’s snappy report is loud and don’t want to annoy some of the neighbors that are anti gun. The indoor range would be nice when the temps drop. We’ll see what next year brings. Thanks!

 

[BP Addict]

On our range we use green grass, the self renewing stuff, what’s more it is kept short by the local ‘roos, wallabies, wild goats and rabbits.

There's grass in front of the 3' wide strip of "Turf".

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

This new rule sucks and hopefully they'll come to their senses and remove it. At least you have a club you can shoot at. The only club near me has a whopping $10,000 initiation fee and a $195 monthly fee to join.

It's not a ban as much as a temporary restriction. They will be allowed again when the weather is cooler and/or the rains come back. They say they've done this before but not while I've been a member.

This will definitely make them rethink that carpet idea though!

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

Not knowing where you are by you profile, I may agree with the club. Explain why you hide your area Eh?

Until knowledge who can tell.

Cottage Grove, Oregon. I didn't know it was blank until I looked. Says it's a required field so I shouldn't have been able to create an account without it!

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

This has nothing to with Black Powder.. it is very rare that BP is ever ejected in an unburned state. The flying particles seen coming out of BP guns are usually burning residue, not powder.

Most nitro powder guns eject unburned propellent, particularly those overloaded with slow powder. The pressure drop at the muzzle as the bullet exits can cause powder grains to extinguish.

BP breaks down quickly in the presence of moisture. Even in hot dry climates, morning dew is enough to cause breakdown. Nitro powder is pretty much waterproof.

Range designs that use absorbent coverings for range floors to reduce noise have to ensure that it can be cleared of propellent debris. Normally noise mitigating rough surfaces should start several meters from the firing line.

A vacuum cleaner used to sweep up explosive residue has a tendency, unless it is especially designed to do so, of repurposing itself into a short life span turbojet engine..!

I suggest your range management team need to go back to school!

Are you saying that static electricity from the vacuum could set it off?

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

I would anyways, it's obvious a shooter walked away and left something burning on something that was installed that "was" a nice feature.
If there is that level of incompetence with the clubs members,, I'd leave.
It's that simple.

As I mentioned after my original post, he did everything right. It was a Freak Accident. The Rangemasters had it extinguished quickly so that's all the damage there was.

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

Ours was washed down every sunday morning. But 14-20 of unburnt AR powder cases, years of buildup in the sound baffling on the wall equals poof. Unburnt powder got caught up in the sound baffling as well over 12 years. Just like in the astroturf did.

Wetting the carpet would most likely be the best bet. However, the Range is on a well that sometimes has a problem keeping up with demand in the Summer.

Walt

 

[Felix the Cat]

Are you saying that static electricity from the vacuum could set it off?

Walt

no..

If you look at the pressure gradient in a gun barrel, there are two areas where the pressure drops, or at least slows..

The first is where the bullet starts to move, overcoming the shot start resistance due to friction and/or bullet engraving and accelerates down the barrel. Until the bullet "unsticks" there is a pressure build-up. As the bullet moves down the barrel, the volume of the chamber increases and the pressure drops, relatively speaking. This causes a drop in temperature for an instant due to the working of the universal gas law PV/T being a constant. In practice this pulse only happens for a very short time, but is the reason for a ring of fouling to form just forward of the chamber caused by the condensation of some of the combustion products on the side of the barrel.

The same happens at the muzzle when the bullet exits and the pressure in the barrel drops to atmosphere. Again there is an instance of cooling caused by the drop in pressure, resulting in the condensation of residue just before the muzzle, hence the second ring of crud buildup!

This low pressure pulse can also cause slow burning propellent grains to drop below ignition temperature and be extinguished as they leave the muzzle. This typically occurs with slow burning nitro powders that have not reached all burned before getting half way down the barrel. In practice many nitro loads eject unburned powder which cannot sustain ignition at normal temperatures and pressures.

This is very rare with Black Powder propellent. Regardless of grain size Black Powder burns very quickly and is rarely ejected unburned from the barrel. Much of the residue from BP is either carbon or sulphur, and it is usually particles of these substances that create the sparks and burning embers from the barrel.

So.. nothing to do with static! It is entirely possible that the fire was started by a burning ember from a BP gun, however the hazard fire was as a result of unburned NITRO powder grains trapped in the Astroturf, not Black Powder grains!

 

[11th corps]

I've only seen guns cause a fire on a military range shooting tracers. Never seen a fire start from shooting otherwise. Most mil ranges are well aware of how dry or wet it is and act accordingly, but the ones in the desert are always dry and full of sage and creosote bushes. 29 Palms has fires frequently. Though I'll bet some of that is from heavy weapons rather than small arms. The flying squad is always ready to go to the range to fight a fire.

I joined a ML/BP only club mainly to learn from the old men, rather than to have a place to shoot.

Indianapolis had a indoor gun range burn down from a shooter with tracer ammo. It's been several years ago.
I have sometimes in the past not shot my m/l during dry summer spells. Worried more about burning patches then anything else.

 

[Scota@4570]

Artificial turf is not flammable.
https://sgwsacramento.com/blog/is-artificial-turf-flammable/

 

[BackDraft]

Artificial turf is not flammable.
https://sgwsacramento.com/blog/is-artificial-turf-flammable/

1. Astroturf IS flammable. It’s made of petroleum products. I’ve seen it burn first-hand.
2. It can be made “Flame-resistant“ by the addition of chemicals, but it will still burn when heated to a high enough temperature.
3. And most importantly, the link above is to a company that will happily take your money to install Astroturf on your property. Slightly tilted article.

 

[Scota@4570]

https://www.installitdirect.com/learn/is-artificial-grass-fire-resistant/
After five pages and my first hand experience I think the most likely cause was unburned powder accumulation . I see no evidence that a spark landing on clean fake grass will cause it to catch fire.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The only club near me has a whopping $10,000 initiation fee and a $195 monthly fee to join.

Wow! That sounds like a club membership where membership is limited, and the downstroke actually involves equity, like a country club membership.

 

[Scota@4570]

Maybe sweep up once in a while?

 

[Col. Batguano]

Was that police range on Maui?

 

[springfield art]

At my club's indoor range the had a powder fire in the concrete expansion joint. It moved along very slowly, no damage was done. The safety bedwetters let forth a deluge of urine.

It was caused by "green" powder. In other words unburnt powder from normal shooting that accumulated over time. I speculate that the Astroturf was catching unburnt powder. Once it had accumulated sufficiently it was ignited. Astroturf is plastic and not very flammable.

Putting Astroturf in front of the firing line was a mistake. It should be removed. IT had nothing to do with shooting black powder. The powder fire at my range was ignited by a regular smokeless cartridge.

There is a certain segment of the "Tacti-cool", "range-Nazi", "karen" types that will cause trouble for the regular members. They seem to get off on controlling others and making pointless work. Most of them have no other life or other interests. IT is important to push back against them.

My indoor range banned black powder. I quit my membership as did many others.

Common for Indoor ranges; the ventilation, especially. The smoke-n-fire, so to speak. Not surprising.

 

[Scota@4570]

Based on the lack of recoil I am thinking they were shooting blanks. Insufficient pressure produces more unburnt powder. Someplace else it was suggested the PD was in South America.

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

If I recall, most bp shoots do not allow modern firearms so don't complain when modern bans bp.
I know lots of indoor shooting ranges do not allow bp do to the fact that all the smoke makes it impossible to see more than a few feet.