Big Bore Smoothie - Really Big!

[voltigeur]

incredible
I wonder the weight of grenade and the feeling when you shoot with it.
it's amazing.

my futur second blunderbuss is a toy to compare to your hand mortar

congratulations

 

[Rifleman1776]

http://www.gggodwin.com/prod-895.htm
Use this on your baldric. The grenades were used against formations. Imagine having a lit grenade roll between your shoes while you hold position in formation.

Lot of things about the way they fought I can't imagine. :shocked2:

 

[Rifleman1776]

I wonder the weight of grenade

I have a cannon ball (solid) just about the size of a tennis ball. Just weighed it, 2 1/2 pounds.

 

[Carteret Kid]

Even the iron grenades were hollow. They were often made of earthen ware with fragments of iron embeded. Given that the physics of recoil have not changed, I believe the range and projectile weight are comparable to an M-79 Bloop Tube.

 

[VEARL]

HOW IS THE GROUPING AT 25 YDS ? :rotf:

 

[Alden]

They'd fire the same 2-3/4" round shell as the Stone or later more sophisticated Cohoern Mortar. These small guns were considered personal weapons, not crew served. Kinda like a swivel gun. The lifting-charge in the narrower powder chamber to make it a more efficient throw could be relatively small but I would not want to shoulder that launcher in real life. No, give me a pitard any day!

Grenades had a "wick" fuse, like in Spy-vs-Spy, held in a wooden plug. Bombardiers (one who professionaly fired a mortar), not grenadiers (who threw grenades or, in reality, by mid-Eigteenth C. were just the bigger, badder, veterans) had wooden tubes filled with saltpeter and blackpowder that burned slowly and surely which they'd cut to length to burst above or amongst the enemy. Grenades thrown yards by hand proved to be of limited and infrequent tactical usefulness as the 18th C progressed. However, lobbing a baseball-sized hollow cast-iron ball with 1/2 lb. of blackpowder in it up and out hundreds of yards proved pretty useful at times.

In mortars per se, they originaly would light the fuze and then light the lifting charge in the gun. If the gun didn't fire they'd douse the shell with water to put it out. Or burst the gun and die. They soon found the lifting charge would probably light the fuze if it was put face down in the mortar and actually almost always lit it if the fuse was face OUT (the shell is enveloped with flames upon launching).

Huzzah!

 

[Jumpshot]

My kids were watching Pirates of the Caribbean 3 today and I noticed one of the guys on the ship had one. Looked the same.

 

[Shine]

Roy Stroh has built a couple.

 

[Shine]

Range on an area target is 350 m with a 79. 400 with a 203. They kick about like a 12 ga. Also the shell are only fired with a really big primer. No gun powder in the shell. Really low pressure, off topic sorry :grin:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I WANT one. I have an 18th century cohorn repro..., and this should be included in the "display".

I wonder how well it would launch a fireworks shell? I mean insert it and light the fuse, and use it as the launcher only, not using the flint mechanism to fire it. The DIY fireworks shells and launchers that one buys at Phantom or Keystone only use reinforced cardboard tubes.

LD

 

[Wes/Tex]

There's a marvelous illustration of one being used in the second volume of Liliane and Fred Funcken's "The Lace Wars" set, with many color paintings of the colorful uniforms in use during the 18th century Europe. In this particular case, the shooter is actually termed a "bombardier" since the grenade-thrower of the day was considered artillery and not infantry who used the term "grenadier" for grenade throwers...whatever! Anyway, the "bombardier" used a shorter version of the NCO's halberd to hook the bottom of the barrel on top of the blade of the halberd. That's the actual reason there's a ring around the barrel between the end of the forearm and the enlarged muzzle. Unfortunately, my scanner's on the fritz and there's no real material in this source about use, range, etc. So get a halberd and go for it!! :haha:

 

[R-71]

I WANT one. I have an 18th century cohorn repro..., and this should be included in the "display".

I wonder how well it would launch a fireworks shell? I mean insert it and light the fuse, and use it as the launcher only, not using the flint mechanism to fire it. The DIY fireworks shells and launchers that one buys at Phantom or Keystone only use reinforced cardboard tubes.

LD

I am not sure I would try this, I don't know how much power the bursting charge in one of those shells has but They have had a couple of accidents where the shell went of in the tube and injured the person trying to launch the firework.

Having said that I also thought of this myself :grin: I am not sure I would try it though.

I was thinking a tennis ball could be cut in half and a small amount of Flour or talc could be placed inside, then use a couple of wraps of electrical tape to seal the seam and fire away.

OP: Nice piece, is that the one offered by Veterans arms?

 

[KABAR2]

The Prussian's used them during our Rev War while in the America's. This was actually a crew served weapon used while in trenches near a fort.

First they tied a rope around the stock of the launcher. Then they loaded the gun and inserted a grenade in the barrel. The grenadier would nod at his assistant who would light the fuse. The grenadier would pull the trigger. If the gun went off then they did it again as needed.

However, if they got a klatch or a long hang fire the grenadier threw the gun with grenade out of the trench. After the grenade blew up they pulled on the rope and pulled the launcher back into the trench.

Many Klatch

Could you give me a refrence source for this? It is the first time I have seen anything written on it......

sometime in the future I'll be building one of these.......

picked this up a couple of years ago.... just got to make time to stock and finish it.....

 

[Many Klatch]

I got this from Grizz, one of our regular members here who has been offline due to surgery. He is a member of a Hessian/Prussian reenactor group in NC and they have researched this. Hopefully he will be able to log on and get you the information.

Many Klatch

 

[KABAR2]

Thanks, I find this an interesting topic...

 

[vetarms]

Hi All,
Thanks everyone for the great info and compliments. It truly is an interesting piece and draws a crowd everywhere I take it. To answer some of the questions:

The piece is a reproduction of a late 1600's/early 1700's Hand Mortar. It has a major bore diameter of 2.5 inches and a powder chamber of .75 caliber.

Hand mortars were used by many European armies during the period from the 1500's through 1700's. A quick google search will turn up images of matchlock, wheellock, and flintlock variations.

They were designed to fire explosive grenades made of hollow iron. Although I don't have hard specs for Hand Mortars close at hand, DeWitt Bailey discusses the very similar Musket-Mortars and their ammo in his book, Small Arms of the British Forces in America 1664-1815. I tend to think the specs would be much the same for the hand mortars' grenades:

Shells:
Exterior Diameter: 2.42 inches.
Interior Diameter: 1.701 inches, 1/64the of the shell: 0.037 inches.
Thickness of iron at top: 0.302 inches, 0.415 inches at the bottom.
Dimensions of the Fuze Hole at top: 0.500 inches, 0.463 at bottom.
Weight of Iron in Shell: 1 lb., .03 ozs.

"The quantity of powder to fill shells is found thus: the Interior diameter being given, first find the number of cubicle Inches in the cavity by cubing the interior diameter [1.701] and multiplying it by 11 and dividing the product by 21 which will be the cubical inches in the cavity. Then divide them by the number of cubical inches in a pound of ordnance powder and the quotient will be the pounds of powder to fill the shell."

It is my understanding that the fuze of the shell was lit prior to firing the hand mortar and not by the weapon's discharge as on later artillery shells.

As I understand it also, the hand mortars were occasionally used (especially aboard ships) as line throwing guns and to fire grappling hooks.

Today, the 2.5 inch bore is perfect for launching tennis balls - empty or with sand added for weight.

My piece is from Veteran Arms LLC. FULL DISCLOSURE: I am the owner of that business as well as a 20+ year muzzleloading enthusiast (in addition to being a frequent reader, but only occasional poster here in the forum). I did not mention the company in my first posting as I did not want my posting to be misinterpreted as advertising. I just wanted to share with the group as a fellow muzzleloading enthusiast. My hand mortar (the one I am pictured with) was the first of the new production models to come out of the shop.

Hand Mortars are, indeed, featured in several films. The fellow holding the hand mortar in Last of the Mohicans is a friend of mine, James Permane of Florida. The midget in Pirates of the Caribbean carries a hand mortar in one of the fight scenes.

I'm hoping to get some video of the hand mortar firing in the near future and will post a link when that happens.

All the best.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Sounds like something I would give my brother-in-law to shoot, while I watched.[.

. The grenadier would nod at his assistant who would light the fuse. The grenadier would pull the trigger. If the gun went off then they did it again as needed.

.

Many Klatch[/quote]

 

[F.G. Ford]

. Imagine having a lit grenade roll between your shoes while you hold position in formation.[/quote]
I DON"T THINK SO!

 

[cynthialee]

. Imagine having a lit grenade roll between your shoes while you hold position in formation.

I DON"T THINK SO![/quote]
Seriously!
Discipline be damned, I am eating dirt fast.
:redface:

 

[Jumpshot]

The midget in Pirates of the Caribbean carries a hand mortar in one of the fight scenes.

He's not the only one. The guy I saw carrying it in the third movie was a different guy, non-vertically challenged. :grin: