Attributes desired for the ultimate fowler

[CrackStock]

With all of the fouling from the other fowling thread, I wanted to try to salvage something useful from the ideas.

So, please make comments regarding what you would like to see in a fine fowling piece.

Let's talk about barrels, locks, stock, touch holes and all sorts of favored features.

Please do not carry over any negative comparisons.

Thanks,
CS

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'm in! To me the most important feature on any fowler is the barrel so...a long barrel, at least 44" and preferably longer.

Octagon to sixteen flat, wedding band or two, then round tapering then slightly flaring and thin walled through the round section to keep weight down.

Too many commercially available fowler barrels today are too heavy, some very much.

Depending on the style/school of the fowler I am not adverse to an all round tapered and flared barrel provided it is also thin walled out front and light.

Next? Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Birdwatcher]

44" barrel, octagon to round, tapered, .62 cal.

I like longer barrels but 44" is as long as I could easily transport. 20 gauge is a great all-round caliber IMHO.

Inconspicuous notch rear sight

In a perfect world, near to the breech like many originals. In the over 50 world, towards the far end of the octagonal. Having your friends be able to hit with your fowler too is convenient.

0.064" touchole, level with the top of thhe pan

Actually, from what I gather the jury's still out on this one...
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/post-2.php

... but no harm in sticking with convential wisdom.

7 1/2 pounds or less

With lighter being better, a 6 1/2 pound fowler feels about like a magic wand, a pure joy to carry and handle.

Brass furniture, plain maple stock, roundfaced lock.

These things were utilitarian guns for the most part and IIRC in old days they didn't value fancy grain nearly as much as we do today.

For future reenacting, this tends to offend purists favoring any given period but brass furniture and round-faced locks are correct over a wider period.

Lock by any major manufacturer (so it can be replaced if necessary), weatherproof pan. Medium-sized lock (big locks tend to be slower).

Some sort of protectant or finish on the underside of the barrel to help prevent rust.

That'd do it for me.

Birdwatcher

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Barrel- for say a 16 bore...1 1/4" in breech, mostly all round with a hint of octagon in the breech, standing breech with hook, barrel 36-44" long, rapid fast breech taper, slight muzzle flare with inside coned out and thin at muzzle.
A Spanish style octagon to round with wedding band is also ok but much overdone in repro barrels. Coned touch hole, no liner.

Locks- I like the French styled locks of the late 17th and early 18th century better made English pieces. Sliding safeties are a good feature. Off the shelf a Chambers cannot be beat if one of his offerings meets a particular style and date.

 

[Supercracker]

Just curious here. I don't own a "fowler".

Why the preference for the longer barrels?

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Probably to more closely replicate the old ones.
An 18th century birding piece similar to what we would class for upland would be about 36-44" and waterfowling pieces could get out there as long as 6-7 feet with a plethora anywhere in the 42-50" range on guns used more for musketry and pot shots.
Although much shorter uncut barrels can be found they were a rarity. The double sxs had some influence on shortening of barrels IMO along with other technical improvements but new old stock continued to be imported here in the longer barrels long after their popularity waned overseas.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have a custom made fowling piece made for me as a gift. The maker is a life-long BP shooter, and gun maker.

Its 20 ga.- actually closer to 19 gauge! Its an ideal caliber for both RB and shot loads given the limited range for hunting game with any smoothbore.

Barrel is 1/2 round, 1/2 octagon, and only(?) 30" long. I would have preferred a barrel that was 36" long, but I have to honestly say that I find no problems using this slightly shorter barrel. one of my modern shotguns have barrels longer than 30".

BALANCE and LIGHT WEIGHT are the most important attributes for a great fowling piece. My gun weighs between 7 and 8 lbs. Its balance is superb.

The lock is a LH Chambers/Siler flintlock. The maker widened the pan to make a larger "target" for the sparks to hit, and drilled the TH .020" above the top rim of the pan. Heat rises, so that this position makes ignition very reliable and quick. The pan is polished mirror smooth, so that it is easily cleaned with a wipe with a spit dampened cleaning patch.

Being a LH gun, I make no claim that it represents any particular school, or guns from some particular European country. The stock and furniture of my gun share attributes from French, English, German, and Dutch guns. Its very "American" in that regard. No one looking at my gun will confuse it with any original, to be sure! But, there is no doubt that it was built to provide me with a fowling piece in design and function. The stock was fitted to me, and has some " Cast-On" to the stock. I don't know how common cast-off is on original fowling pieces, and it does not matter to me if there was never a stock made in the 17th and 18th centuries w/o cast.

Guns are tools. Make your tools work for you. Meeting some PC/HC design should be secondary in your concerns, IMHO. :hmm: :hatsoff:

The purists can now begin firing at me. I can take it. :grin:

 

[jdkerstetter]

.....and because it's just COOL!!! :thumbsup:

One's fowler should be at least as tall as he! So that he has to find a stump to load from....to double as a boat paddle and push stick....(also the reason I think short barreled canoe guns are a marketing oxymoron... :grin: ) Nothing is cooler than somebody shouldering a 6 foot fowler with a super thin barrel and seeing the look of disbelief on their face at how light it is and how it handles....COOL!!!

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Obviously a lot depends on for what you intend to use the gun. If you want to hunt upland game a nice 16 or 20 guage barrel will do well. For ducks and geese you should use something bigger. I have at least 2 ideal fowlers in mind, both English. The first is a 1740's light 20 guage with 44-46" Spanish barrel, hook breech and tang with sighting groove, Chamber's round-faced English lock, steel mounts except for a chiseled silver sideplate and wrist escutcheon. English walnut stock with modest silver wire inlay and rococo shell carving around the breech tang. All metal tastefully engraved in the 18th century English style. My second choice is an early 19th century 16 guage half stocked English gun with a late John or Joe Manton bolted flintlock (TRS or Blackley's), hooked patent breech, and steel mounts. The barrel would be 38", Spanish form, and finished to simulate a fine stub twist. Stock would be figured English walnut with checkered wrist but no other decoration. All metal would be engraved with early 19th century English motifs. The gun would have a partitioned mahogany or oak case, lined in wool baize, and complete with accessories. Both guns will be designed and/or weighted, such that the balance point is well behind the point where I place my left hand on the forestock. The fit will be such that if I put the gun to my shoulder and sight down the barrel, close my eyes and lower the gun, and then raise it to my shoulder again, when I open my eyes I will be sighting perfectly down the barrel again.

dave

 

[Supercracker]

Thanks guys. Just curious. I've shouldered a couple of long fowlers that were shockingly light and swingable.

90% of hunting I would/will do with a smoothie will be upland (quail, dove, occasional duck, etc) so I've been working off and on on a Mantonish Late flint shotgun with a 31" Barrel. But that's a different animal. I'll probably build a short, 34" or so English style Fowler soon. But it will be short to be better loaded and used mounted than to match a particular style.

Thanks again. Just learning.

 

[asbrown]

:hmm: :hmm: For me the perfect fowler will have a 48" 28guage oct/wedding band/round, straight tapered and medium weight barrel, with fornt and rear sights. I know some will argue its not a fowler with rear sights but plenty of kentucky fowlers had both so cut me some slack. The wood should seem to hang from the barrel, instead of the barrel being buried in the wood. Ornamentation will be minimal but apropriate, and it would have an English lock,ie. Egg, Manton, or Twigg. This one gun would do everything I need from tree rats, to turkeys, to deer. You know the old saying "beware the man with one gun, he probably know's how to use it." :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Light - seven lbs or slightly more if the barel is 42".

No rear sight - it's a fowling piece and should be pointed and not be aimed.

Large lock.

Barrel? Light and swamped. 16 ga works up light as most current makers start with a 20 blank and thin it out to make a 16.

Should mount quickly and where shooter is looking for an instant shot.

Trigger between three and four pounds of pull; nicely crisp.

I like the English style with iron furniture and figured walnut, but that is a personal preferance.

 

[colmoultrie]

Just to be ornery, how about a .75 - .80 cal round bbl, about 50" - 60" long, with a nice wide club butt in walnut to balance it out, mid-late 17th century Dutch lock and furniture, and just for fun, forestock cut back 3" from the muzzle, with a bayonet lug added, and of course a bayonet for militia muster. It may not be everyone's ideal, but it fits one definition of a fowling piece, and I'd love to have one like that.

 

[CrackStock]

StumpKiller,

You and I are on the same page here. You are very close to what I have in mind.

CS

 

[Dave K]

Exactly the way it should be. IMHO.

 

[Cruzatte]

OK, I'll play along.
Barrel
20 ga. X 48-51½ inches, octagon to round, tapered, armory bright
Lock
French style flat faced, also armory bright, maybe some engraving
Stock
European walnut (Juglens regia) with carving around the barrel tang, molding along the barrel channel and ramrod channel
Furniture
Brass, engraved in French Regency style, basically a St. Etienne fusil fin de traite

 

[Birdwatcher]

The first is a 1740's light 20 guage with 44-46" Spanish barrel, hook breech and tang with sighting groove.....

My second choice is an early 19th century 16 guage half stocked English gun with a late John or Joe Manton bolted flintlock (TRS or Blackley's), hooked patent breech, and steel mounts.

I'm guessing a "hooked patent breech" is where you pull the wedges (??) in the forestock and lift out the whole barrel, rendering cleaning and transport both far easier. The usual case in factory halfstock repros.

Whats a "hooked breech"?

...or as mentioned earlier a "standing hooked breech"?

Thanks,

Birdwatcher

 

[Capt. Jas.]

A patent breech has to do with the breaching system inside the barrel that is based on Nock's patent breeching system.
A standing/hook is part of a breaching system where a hook in the back of the barrel breechplug goes into a separate tang and receiving component. This can be had on a barrel with standard breaching inside or the patent breech reservoir type.

 

[hanshi]

Your specifications are about like mine except for a couple things. Seven lbs would be my max and I'd want brass mounts and a bit of carving. Otherwise....

 

[tg]

I would find some photos originals of a style to your liking and use them as a guide of sorts, one cannot go wrong looking to the originals for guidence.This may help prevent mixing time frames and styles/place of origin if this is a factor in the choice.I think this approach is the easiest/best way to come up with a well made gun of most any kind/ style/time period IMHO.If ones goal is just a nice gun then other ways will suffice but it is so easy to get it "right" by using the originals for guidence it just seems the practical way to go for a well made gun which also fits into history quite nicely, now there may have been a poll refuting all we thought we knew about gun history so one need be cautious when proceeding this direction.