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Armi Sport 1842 Springfield rifled Musket

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Matt85

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id really like one of the big bore conversion muskets and ive found one in the 1842 Springfield Rifled Musket made by Armi Sport. its a .69 cal rifled musket with a 1-72 twist. looks like the going rate is around $800 so id like to be sure about what im getting.

can any one tell me a little about the maker and the gun?

thanks!
 
Hello there.
Mine is the shorter 33" barreled Fremont expedition version that Armisport produced.
69Fremont.jpg

Observed pro's and con's follow.

The barrels on the Armisport .69 caliber muskets are reported to vary quite a bit from gun to gun.
Mine is 0.6962" bore diameter and 0.7028" groove as best as I could measure, reaching as much barrel as available instrumentation would allow.
Those are bore mikes with three equally spaced points of contact.
boremikes.jpg

The grooves are very shallow which really made me pull hair out trying to get it to shoot round ball. You're better off with a smooth bore than grooves that shallow! My best results are with 0.683" ball (not what it says on the mold blocks), a thin greasy patch and a shotgun fiber wad over the powder that has been soaked in melted lube. Won't bother getting into powder charges because your results will be different from mine, but mine are enough to make that waxy fiber wad function as a bore sealing sabot that transfers spin from that almost smooth bore to overcome the inertial resistance of that huge ball.
My barrel has a place inside the barrel by where the bayonet lug was brazed to the exterior where you can feel a little extra patch tightness. How much? Nada. But if you are very careful you can feel it.
The muzzle has a relatively thin wall thickness. If you want to shoot round ball in a muzzle loader then the thing to do is smooth the entrance into the rifling in order to make a tight patched ball go in easier, right? Uh uh. The thin wall makes that an iffy path.

The lock. Big. Powerful. Correct alignment. Never had a problem... well, except that time that I didn't realize that I'd left a screw not tight and couldn't figure out how come the trigger pull was getting so hard. But I figured it out, now the trigger pull is great. Have had no problems concerning parts hardness.

The stock is very nice wood. The stain on mine from the factory had to go. Gave me a case of shoeshine fingers every time I went shooting. So, I scrubbed down the stock with stain removing stuff (used some alcohol I think), left it air a week and went back with linseed. Now it doesn't rub off and I'm happy. Got no problems with fit of the barrel or furniture. The barrel bands are tight fit. When the interior spring loaded pin on the front band clicks into place it's a micro precision placement with tension applied just right to make it happen.

Besides round ball I have tried this home grown design paper patched projectile.
BigChiefBuffaloNickel.jpg

It's an old Lyman 57730 minie modified to have straight sides and adjustable plug to allow changing the length and weight.
57730-69paperpatch.jpg

So far when it works it works but I haven't managed to get all the bugs worked out of it. The projectile diameter is perfectly sized to create a nice tight fit to the bore when paper patched. Ok great. But, the paper has not previously been compressed. I suspect the process of compressing the paper with pressure from the powder charge introduces a point of variation, like you were shooting a minie that was just not quite as large as it really should be.

This is a Lyman 68569 minie mold that duplicates some of the .69 caliber minies recovered from Civil War battlefields. The mold has been modified to have an enlarged and captive plug.
685069.jpg

It is too small for my barrel and just might get the bands enlarged in the near future. What a hunk. Looks like a partizan with babushka wrapped around her face should be firing it at a panzer.
comparison.jpg

I want to try it out because it will be interesting to understand what was really used a century and a half ago.

The hole communicating from the barrel to the chamber beneath nipple is a little narrow. Not narrow for black but narrow for some subs. Had some Pioneer powder that I tried in it years ago. Every third shot required the nipple to be pulled because of build up in this area. I haven't opened up the hole leading into the barrel because working around the nipple hole threads just gives me a case of the hinkies. I don't want to go there and it works great with black the way it is.

The sights are great. The tight barrel to band to stock fit on mine means I don't have to worry (so far) about changes in windage. Stuck a thin wafer magnet under the rear ladder when it's laying flat to get the elevation to be where I wanted mine to be. You can't even see the wafer is there and it didn't require any mods to the hardware.

Over all, it's a nicely designed musket. Recently put a leather sling on it that duplicates the originals. And I really, really need to find time to go hunting.
 
some good info, thanks!

what size shotgun wad are you using for the PRB?

what kinda accuracy have you been able to get with the PRB?

i mainly shoot PRB so if i cant get decent groups with em outa this rifle it might not be for me.
 
Using 14 ga wads from Track Of The Wolf.
When I'm doing good I get clover leafs to an inch and a half (most often) at 50 yards. When I start jerking around it opens up.
The rifle weight is not huge. It feels right when you bring it up. With a round ball that weights about the same as 45-70 service load it gets too much of my attention after a while.
I like the rifle so much that I've actually considered plunking the big bucks just for a round ball barrel. If I had anything bad to say it would be that it isn't a flintlock. Would love to have an interchangeable flinter lock!
 
i assume you mean the standard type "A" over powder 14 gauge wads and not the thicker ones?
 
If the bore is oversize, send the barrel to Bob Hoyt. He'll reline it to .687, which is the correct size.

Duane
 
Matt85 said:
i assume you mean the standard type "A" over powder 14 gauge wads and not the thicker ones?

The big spongy fiber boogers. Half inch or so thick. They smoosh, squish, whatever, into the back of the ball (my theory) and seem to disintegrate thereafter. Least ways I'm not finding them.
 
really?!? the .5" ones are huge. have you tried the .125" ones? did the .5" wads make that big of a difference?

i kinda get where your coming from in turning the ball into somewhat of a mini with the .5" wad but it sounds a bit iffy. (not saying it doesnt work)
 
i guess my main worry about this rifle is whether or not it will be any good at 75-100 yards with a PRB. my goal would be sub 6" off-hand groups at 100 yards.

one of the uses i had in mind for this shoulder fired cannon was hunting black bear as my 50 cal (slow twist) pennsylvania rifle seems like it might not cut it. any thoughts on using the 1842 69 cal rifle for black bear?
 
i have a 1853 enfield and its a 58 cal. i had a hard time finding ammo to fit the barrel because armi has over sized barrels but i have shot mine out to 50 yards and it shot ok. if u can get the right size rb and charge u shouldn't have a problem at 100 yards with a lot of practice.
 
I am not sure how the 69's compair to the 58's but with 577-611's, and around 60gr 2f, my Armi Richmond shoots around 4in groups at 100 yards. So I would guess you should be able to get at least the 6 inch groups you are looking for.
 
well i went ahead and ordered one from cabelas. (they have em for $799 at the moment)

i ordered some .678 musket balls, 60-69 cal rifle patches ranging from .015-.02 including pillow ticking, and some 14 gauge .125 and .5 wads.

dixie has .694 minie balls but they are out of stock, will try some of those when they get more in.

now if you'll excuse me, i need to go put my credit card down like Ol Yeller.
 
Never hunted black bear but I can only say what I think about the .69. It's the same as shooting a 45-70 or 45-90 depending on how you load it. The only real difference is that the "bullet" (the round ball) is pre-mushroomed compared to .45 caliber so that there's no concerns over whether or not it will expand when it hits the animal.
The .683" ball I use is about 480 grains plus a smidgen for the sprue.

Concerning the thick fiber wads, it's what I had and gave a try. The rifling pattern in my Fremont gave me fits trying to figure out how to get it to group with round ball. I still get some flyers but mostly it zings them pretty good.

I'd like to do a soft recovery of a fired ball and try to determine exactly what all is happening. Maybe a large tubular package of shredded paper pulped by being soaked over night? I'm saving paper for a new recovery medium. Or a wooden trough filled with water with a sacrificial hole cover in one end? Maybe a piece of PVC pipe, split long ways and taped together to allow it to pop apart without cracking the pipe.
 
I know what you are saying; when it comes to guns I have to handle my CC with asbestos gloves. I hope you enjoy your Armisports musket. I have truely enjoyed shooting mine over the past few years and I am developing confidence in her ability to hit what she is aimed at. I started shooting steel plates with her at 250 yards. I regularly get 50 to 60% hits, and my misses are usually by a hair. With a little more work I am sure I can do better. Fun thing to watch the minnie ball fly into the target on a sunny day- looks like a big silver bee.
 
would you consider selling me some .683 balls to try out? what mold are you using for your .683 RB?
 
sorry to double post but i forgot a important question i had.

does this rifle use #11 caps or musket caps?

if it uses musket caps, what kinda of threading does the nipple use so i can replace it with a #11 nipple. (there is no source of musket caps in my area)
 
Matt85 said:
sorry to double post but i forgot a important question i had.

does this rifle use #11 caps or musket caps?

if it uses musket caps, what kinda of threading does the nipple use so i can replace it with a #11 nipple. (there is no source of musket caps in my area)

You can probably get interchangeable nipples from Track Of The Wolf and/or Log Cabin On Line to use #11 caps. Talk to them to make sure they send you the right thread and nipple length.
 
Matt85 said:
would you consider selling me some .683 balls to try out? what mold are you using for your .683 RB?

im still curious on what mold your using for your .683 RB, GoodCheer?
 

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