American Mountain Men

[TFoley]

Looking over their requirements for membership I think this may be the hardest one to achieve.

16. Must have at least three full years of membership in the AMM.

I KNOW that it has been explained, but I still don't see the rationale. Pehaps I'm just too dumb after all.

tac

 

[Elkeater]

[/quote]
The reason I got into buckskinning was so that I could "do it my way" with what I made myself. I am a long time buckskinner but am a "free tapper type" I do it my way! :hmm: :hmm: [/quote]


Glad you are enjoying doing it yer way.
The thing about AMM that always puzzled me was how the members could so often leave a 'normal' life and travel away from home. From talking with some, I surmised most did not have jobs but received some kind of government check for their income. That allowed them to live a lifestyle most of us couldn't manage.[/quote]

I have worked hard as an independent contractor. Have never been on the government dole. At 65 I'll be able to semi retire. I just might take a look at these AMM then. Especially if they let me play with me horse. But perhaps I'm not normal. :v

 

[Twisted_1in66]

When I was doing reenactments with the VA7th, we had a cache of loaner equipment that newbies were allowed to use for a year. This was primarily a flintlock musket and a shared tent. You were expected to supply your own within a year or so. That made a big difference in getting folks to join.

After getting the 7th's guidebook for their impression, they could put together the clothing pretty quickly. Cooking was done at one spot, so they didn't need the kitchen gear. It was the flintlock and the tent that were expensive and the main challenge, so those were the items that were often signed out to beginners.

Since I had already been reenacting for a number of years, all I had to do was make a new hat. The Scottish Tam that was common in New England had to be replaced with the Virginia Round Hat, which was THE hat for the Virginia Rifle Company as well as the Line. It was a fun project and not difficult to make.

So yes, initial costs are significant. But if you have 3-years to get your gear together well enough to reach their full membership, and the person who recommended you actually mentors you, it shouldn't be too bad. I can't say because I'm not a member, but I would guess that loaner gear from others would be a part of getting started.

Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Dan

 

[tenngun]

Since it’s an invitation only club and the fact that the to get invited you have probably moved down that road any way. I’m sure any one who was asked would be helped along the way. I would bet there are not many people that join that get kicked out for failure to meet the requirements.
When I go trekking I play the game to the hilt with the exception of some safety gear. I do show my wife on a map where I’m going and when I should be in touch by. I do keep to hc equipment and clothing and don’t cheat. My food is correct, my cooking is correct ect.
The type of mind set that’s going to get a person invited to AMM is that sort interest in playing the game. A person wants to play it, and doesn’t want to cheat. No one that’s asked to join is going to say ”˜ if they had it they would have used it’ . No one is going to get a cigarette and lighter out of a little brain tanned bag for a quick smoke, or whip out a magnesium fire stick.
They don’t have to be rich or retired but do have to be dedicated.

 

[wulf]

Perfect.

 

[Barry Stewart]

Snakebite, I agree with your comment. I am not a member of the AMM but I have read over their requirements and looked over their website many times. I greatly admire their dedication to living history. Their requirements seem daunting at first glance but it seems to be a kind of apprenticeship program. I don't think they are meant for instant gratification. If you look at some of their write ups of outings (with photos) you can see new members who have beginner type gear who are being mentored by other members.

There sure seems to be a lot of veiled and not so veiled criticism of the group on this thread that I don't understand. They are an outfit with very high standards and although I will probably never be a member I see no need to criticize them. They seem like an organization that is not for everybody and I think that is what they set out to be. Fine by me. Live and let live in my opinion.

As to the high cost to be a member or fulfill the requirements I don't understand the reasoning. The way I read their requirements a person could make his own cloth breeches and shirt that fit the time period while waiting to acquire skins to make leggings etc.. Their gatherings have "colleges" where senior members teach skills like dressing hides and trapping beaver. Some of the requirements involve "living off the land" for one night or several with period gear. I don't see how it could get any cheaper or more simple than that.

I do agree with the comments regarding a large time commitment but it really just depends on what you are into and how seriously. Some guys spend a lot of time playing golf or riding Harleys etc. (both pretty pricey hobbies by the way).

In regard to the original post I would advise through experience to save your money and buy a quality, period correct used rifle or trade gun. I have gone down the road of buying an "entry level" gun then a "semi-custom production" then a more expensive piece etc.. By the time you are done you have spent more money that you would have buying a good used gun.

Sorry for the long post but it seemed like the group was being ganged up on pretty severely without good cause, in my opinion. Just the way I see it.

 

[Bo T]

You would be a step below a voyager, but you don't appear to need all of that equipment. If I read correctly, you need to be able to pack for travel on foot. And being able to pack a horse or load a canoe or a boat is what is asked for. So, true to their stated goals. A lot is skill based. I am ignorant on the exact material that is required for clothing but I have been told many times that it has to be hand sewn. One might be able to skate using that Heritage wool 80/20 blend. @ $30/yd. Old worn wool blankets/clothes can be repurposed. Worn canvas with the gromlets cut off and re-hand sewn could suffice as the start of a bed roll. The same for a small tarp to keep the rain off. Canvas can be sewn up and waterproofed to make a bucket. Now, I'm doing a little inferring here so one would need to talk with some AMM members to determine what is needed.

 

[Black Hand]

As a private club, the AMM are entitled to make any requirement for membership they deem necessary. I do not object to the club or its members - I know a couple members and they are capital fellows with lots of knowledge & experience.

That said (and as mentioned previously), one can reach or aspire to the same or higher standards without joining a club...

 

[tenngun]

That’s very true. I woulpoint to you as someone to contact about putting together an hc our fit for a newbie. for that time and place. There is plenty of room in our sport for go-it-aloners as much as club members and everyone in between.

 

[wulf]

I don't think so...one can reach places never
thought of by himself. With the aid of others,
new ideas open up and guidance makes it a lot
easier and better...A lot of people think they
have reached the very highest possible ability,
only to learn they have a long way to go.
Examine gun making as an example...How far can
one go without the the videos and classes and
advice of those who have been at it for many
years.....Way too many opinions here.....

Wulf.......

 

[tenngun]

Exchange of ideas between people that share the same interest helps. Lots of folks carry the same dedication to getting an out fit right that are not AMM.
One can ”˜do it my self’ but then run the risk of spinning off in wrong directions. Going to events and finding like minded people and most importantly researching to your best let’s you put together a fine impression.
AMM is too narrow and too regimented for my taste. However if you want to do MM find one of these guys and pick his brain. I’ve never met any one of us Living history nerds that won’t tell you more about our favorite subject then any normal person wants to hear. You can get to historic sites and find the guys volentaring there. They will talk your foot off. And put you in touch with the like minded.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

AMM is just like the rest of the world. Mostly great people, occasional jerks. But I ran into that in the broader world of buckskinning too.

I pursued it for a while, but I just couldn't find the sacrifice it required worthwhile. While I was interested in learning primitive survival, I was perhaps less interested in historical correctness.

As far as I can recall they weren't really picky about the guns. I just had a GPR caplock.

Go for it. If your stick don't float that way, just drop out, find a different group.

 

[jbricejr]

I can provide a little perspective on a newbie's experience with the AMM, as I'm actually in the process of working through my requirements to reach the Bosslopper level (which is the lowest true membership level where you have a member number). So right now I'm probationary, called a Pilgrim. You do have to have an invite, but I didn't find that too hard once I approached a couple of members and went over my background and experience. The 3 years of membership thing is for reaching the highest level, Hiverano, which means you've been a Bosslopper for 3 years and have done all 20 requirements rather than just 10 requirements to become a Bosslopper. Yes, that's a little complicated I guess. My 2 year clock to complete my 10 Bosslopper requirements started back in the summer, and I'm clearing hurdles and expect to be done by late summer. Tomorrow I'll be fleshing my first beaver taken with period-correct traps and methods. Yes, it's been a time commitment, though I already had some of my gear and a decent stack of braintan just from having a strong interest in all this since my teens in the late 70s. I'm 57, and am a part owner of a small consulting company here in eastern Idaho, so that has afforded some flexibility to be able to take off the extra time needed to work on requirements, but mostly I've been able to do what I need to do on the weekends. Unlike most of the members I've met, I was never previously involved in a buckskinning group, I just did my own thing with a hunting orientation; that's not the norm.

As far as the people in the organization, I've had only limited exposure, as there aren't many active members in my area at present. My sponsor is a really nice guy, and he and I briefly attended the National this past summer. The people I met were mostly very friendly. I've also met a few AMM members at the living history event at the museum in Pinedale and at Ft. Bridger; a few seemed a little aloof, but most were not. I'm enjoying working through my requirements and am learning a lot, despite being a lifelong backcountry hunter. As far as gear and costs, as I said I already had some things, including a hand made FL, but it is a little pricey to fully gear up if you are trying to get set up fast. If you take a little more time and make most of your gear yourself you will save a good chunk of money. If you make the jump to being mounted you are really going to spend some serious money.

One of my personal interests in all this, aside from gaining the knowledge, gear, and skills, is to hopefully make some friends who are interested in period correct hunting, but the AMM's strong commitment to authenticity is also a strong draw for me. With that said though, my impression is that most of the members tolerate some inaccuracy amongst new people if they are showing that they are making an effort to learn and improve. As far as the whole gun question, you can definitely document caplocks pre-1840, and the ledgers show a lot of percussion caps going west in the late 1830s, so I think you'd be fine with that kind of rifle. Everything I've heard is that if you can document it as pre 1840 you're good. I saw a Patterson cap and ball revolver in a guys belt at the AMM National, which is pushing the 1840 limit very, very hard. Sorry to be so long winded.

 

[tenngun]

Well Kit Carson did have one in 1839.

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Yep, well I made most of my loot as a public servant, wild land fire, forestry plans, timber cruising, fish passage projects. On vacation time I took hunters on float hunts for bear and such. Its not all play acting, for me it was a profession and a way of life.

Studying the mountain man era is interesting. Something I always wanted to do. It looks to me as though the AMM have some good stuff on their sites so I study it, its interesting and they have some good students willing to share their findings.

I have no interest in being some old raw hide hillbilly making it up as I go. For me (MHO) it is more interesting to see how those folks made it in history.

You'd have to be some skookum man to make it on your own in those days. Outfits seemed to be common.

So I appreciate the fact that insofar as they do, the AMM share a good bit of the knowledge they've gleaned from book research and practical bushcraft. Just my 2c

Glen

 

[Alaskan Woodsman]

Yep, I agree. Lets pick on sign shooters and litter bugs, not the AMM or each other. We'll be too much like other outdoor types, picking at each other and such all the time like a bunch of old gals. I like your idea about the used gun.

We have had some excellent discussions about guns and time periods and I've met some really nice men sending me good advice and publications on my private messenger.

Much appreciated. Good group here.

 

[Elkeater]

In regard to the original post I would advise through experience to save your money and buy a quality, period correct used rifle or trade gun. I have gone down the road of buying an "entry level" gun then a "semi-custom production" then a more expensive piece etc.. By the time you are done you have spent more money that you would have buying a good used gun.

Excellent advice!

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I will respectfully disagree with this advice - up to a point. Don't buy the cheapest gun out there that is likely to give you a miserable experience. But if saving up 4 figures would take too long you can certainly go for something more affordable and enjoy shooting something while you save for a custom gun.

A Lyman, Pedersoli, or Thompson Center will give you satisfaction. Better yet would be to get one of those used. Then you can save up for a custom gun, and when your only a few hundred dollars from your goal, sell your first muzzleloader for close to what you paid!

I am all for delayed gratification, but sometimes it just isn't necessary.

 

[wulf]

Very good advice...Who says a gun is necessary on
your first visit...gives you a chance to see what
is popular....TC's not so much but they can be altered. I have done that.....for others.

Wulf

 

[Tinker2]

I still have a job, which a lot of people should be grateful for because I'm paying their Social Security.

Thanks for that, but could you work a little harder? :wink:
Our Social Security checks are a little too small.




Thanks for your service atriot:




William Alexander