1860 Colt vs. 1858 Remington

[AlexB]

I guess I completely misunderstood the function of those cappers. I assumed you charge the cylinder and put one of those moon-clip looking things and leave it there until all the 6 primers were expended and the rounds were all discharged. Thinking about it more, I expect that the “clip” would interfere with the hand so it really couldn’t be left on. That would be a great invention though.

They just make putting the caps on easier.......by quite a bit in my case.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I have fired both, but currently own just one; a Pietta-made Colt 1860 Army replica. It might seem counter-intuitive, but in my experience, the Colt design is more accurate in general, even though the rear sight is a notch in the hammer. As to which way to go.... well, that's up to you really. I would haunt used gun shops and find either one in good shape that suits my needs. In general, stay away from brass frames unless the price is just too good to pass up.

Most people prefer Uberti to Pietta, but I haven't really noticed any difference in the guns I've handled over the years. Several years ago I acquired an old Army San Marco Walker Colt replica made of actual stainless steel. Like an idiot, I sold it... and greatly regret that decision, If ASM made either of the designs you are considering out of stainless... that would be my first choice unless I could find an affordable Ruger Old Army 5 1/2".... but that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

 

[M. De Land]

@wiscoaster

In my opinion you should buy a 1851 Colt replica first. Make sure it's the proper .36 caliber and not a .44 caliber. Learn the ins-outs of cap and ball with the 1851. And then branch out to other cap and ball revolvers.

Contrary to popular opinion, the Colt design is NOT weaker than the Remington design. Our resident cap and ball expert Mike at goonsguns otherwise known as @45D would agree with me. Now Mike and I disagree on Pietta vs Uberti but non the less the Colt is not a weaker design than the Remington.

Colts do 'suck' more caps than Remingtons. I would agree that a bone stock Remington is more reliable than a comparable bone stock Colt. That said, Colts 'point' better than Remingtons.

You WILL end up with both AND appreciate both for their strengths and weaknesses. But I would buy a Pietta 1851 as my first cap and ball. Guess what? I have followed my own advice and now own 9 cap and ball revolvers after many years. Most are Colts designs, but some are Remingtons. I still prefer Pietta over Uberti, but won't turn down a good deal on a new or lnib Uberti.

Oh, you chamber one in something like a .454 Cassull five shooter using full loads and you will soon see that the design is not only weaker but has far more flex than a Ruger or Colt 73 style solid frame gun..
The slot in the arbor in open frame guns is the weak point as the pull load and shear area is only a fraction of the area a barrel thread subtends in a solid frame gun. In open frame guns the only thing keeping the barrel from going down range is the very thin bit of steel above and below the arbor key slot and in the end of the arbor. Then some weaken it even more by drilling and tapping the arbor end for a arbor length adjustment screw. Folks there ain't much steel in either area compared to a barrel thread.
In my opinion there isn't enough steel in either area to safely stand the tension and shear loading of High intensity cartridge pressures indefinitely as will a Ruger or Freedom arms.

 

[NorthFork]

Oh, you chamber one in something like a .454 Cassull five shooter using full loads and you will soon see that the design is not only weaker but far more flexible than is a Ruger or Colt 73 style solid frame gun..
The slot in the arbor in open frame guns is the weak point as the pull load and shear area is only a fraction of the area a barrel thread subtends in a solid frame gun. In open frame guns the only thing keeping the barrel from going down range is the very thin bit of steel above and below the arbor key slot and in the end of the arbor. Then some weaken it even more by drilling and tapping the arbor end for a arbor length adjustment. Folks there ain't much steel in either area compared to a barrel thread.
In my opinion there isn't enough steel in either area to safely stand the tension and shear loading of High intensity cartridge pressures indefinitely.

Huh? Where in pre 1875 land does the .454 Casull fit in?? You people and your silly notions of trying to make simple cap and ball revolvers into something they where never intended to be is obnoxious.

 

[M. De Land]

Huh? Where in pre 1875 land does the .454 Casull fit in?? You people and your silly notions of trying to make simple cap and ball revolvers into something they where never intended to be is obnoxious.

You maintain open frame guns are no weaker than are solid frame guns and this is simply untrue. A. 454 Cassull full throttle load shot regularly in an open frame gun would soon prove the notion as the nonsense it is.
Moderate cartridge pressures in open frame guns has been shown to be safe at least for a while but you will not find any of the cartridge conversion cylinder folks recommending heavy charges of smokeless loading.

 

[45D]

Silly talk.

Who ever said anything about chambering an open-top in 454 ?
A SAA in 45C won't handle 45C +p's
but my Dragoons will as normal diet. Same with my 60's shooting 23Kpsi as normal.

Lot's of revolvers won't handle these loads including Mr De Land's. I don't make up these stories, I just make it happen at the range. When you learn how to set them up, you can see just how strong they are . . . which is obviously already more than a large number of top strap revolvers (including the Remington).

Mike

 

[user 922]

Good grief, this thread has really gone off-topic. The OP bought his revolver. Time to lock this one up.

 

[Chupacabra Charlie]

The round ball for a 1860 colt or an 1858 remington should be .454 diameter not cartridge . Loading this size round ball will make a very tight fit leaving a lead ring on the outside of the cylinder. This helps prevent chain fires along with the use of a lubed wad or grease over the top of the cylinder. I have fired my 1858 remingtons with conversion cylinders using 45 colt very light hand loads. If you decide to use a conversion cylinder be very careful of your loads these cap n ball revolvers are designed for black powder loads only.

 

[45D]

Good grief, this thread has really gone off-topic. The OP bought his revolver. Time to lock this one up.

Yeah, I'd hate for the op ( or anybody else that might be interested) to actually learn something ( helps keep down the "tunnel vision" some places have).

There's a lot of threads I don't read because the topic doesn't interest me. Should I call for them to be locked up?
Never really occurred to me.

 

[45D]

The round ball for a 1860 colt or an 1858 remington should be .454 diameter not cartridge . Loading this size round ball will make a very tight fit leaving a lead ring on the outside of the cylinder. This helps prevent chain fires along with the use of a lubed wad or grease over the top of the cylinder. I have fired my 1858 remingtons with conversion cylinders using 45 colt very light hand loads. If you decide to use a conversion cylinder be very careful of your loads these cap n ball revolvers are designed for black powder loads only.

Actually, the cylinders are intended for smokeless ammo ( just to be clear).

Mike

 

[wiscoaster]

I think I've been hijacked.

 

[mushka]

bout time you realized that. It's not your fault though.

 

[Hawk54]

I think I've been hijacked.

Happens all the time here.

 

[45D]

I think I've been hijacked.

Yep, well this is what happens when you ask for opinions. You get all flavors and then some.

It's a little surprising though that after all the info has been offered , you're a little miffed that you got "too much"?

Mike

 

[Carnavore Phil]

I have a little problem with caps jamming my 58, used both 10 , 11. Help

A cure for cap sucking C&B revolversInfoShoppingTap to unmuteIf playback doesn't begin shortly, try restarting your device.Full screen is unavailable. Learn More0:10 / 8:43•Watch full videoLivelike the open top cult type cap and ballrevolvers we face a phenomenon anannoying one that I call cap sucking andthat's where you fire a shot and ofUp nextLiveUpcomingCancelPlay NowSwitch cameraShareInclude playlistAn error occurred while retrieving sharing information. Please try again later.Watch laterShareCopy link0:000:10 / 8:43•Watch full videoLive••

 

[wiscoaster]

Yep, well this is what happens when you ask for opinions. You get all flavors and then some.

It's a little surprising though that after all the info has been offered , you're a little miffed that you got "too much"?

Mike

No, not miffed at "too much" ... miffed at "way off topic". But, hey, it's a public space. They can say what they want, and so can I.

 

[45D]

Precisely my point.

Well at least you know a little more than you did.
Glad yer not too miffed.

Mike

 

[SPQR70AD]

nobody on the planet can convince me that an open top is as or stronger then a screwed in barrel pistol 58 with a solid frame which includes the grip frame I dont care what mods are made.

 

[Tenring]

It seems like no matter what design it is everything has its ups and downs. I enjoy Colts and Remingtons, If it goes bang you know it’s fun…

 

[45D]

nobody on the planet can convince me that an open top is as or stronger then a screwed in barrel pistol 58 with a solid frame which includes the grip frame I dont care what mods are made.

Maybe when you bend one of your '58s you'll understand.
Funny thing is, it's not necessarily "mods" needed . . . It's just making it "right" in the first place!!

Keep your powder dry and your head in tha sand !!

Mike