12g loads

[krankieone]

I took my recently acquired I.Hollis & Sons 12g percussion cap side x side shotgun for a walk down to the hay paddock looking for a rabbit or 2 couldn't get within about 80yards before they took off but I did flush out a fox and took shot at it from around 25 yards with rather disappointing results .The load I used was 1oz number 4 shot with the same volume of ffg with a cork wad and thin overshot card.With a cartridge gun I would have nailed him at that distance all I managed to do was make him jump before he continued on his way.I'm thinking I need a more powerful load should I continue with "square" loads and try 1 1/4 oz loads or up the powder charge

 

[coloradoclyde]

Cartridge guns have chokes.....80 yards is way out of range for a cylinder bore gun.

Try a rifle or modify your hunting tactics. :grin:

 

[krankieone]

The shot was taken at 25 yards I would not shoot no 4 shot at game over 50 yards

 

[Ron LaClair]

That's a good rabbit load, if you're gonna hunt fox's then bump up the charge.

 

[Phil Coffins]

In my 12 gauge I use plastic shot cups to hold the pattern together. They are the same type used in reloading modern shot shells. Remington is the brand that seems to load the easiest then an over card to hold the shot in place. Works well with 1 to 1 1/2 ounce loads.

 

[Rifleman1776]

That's a good rabbit load, if you're gonna hunt fox's then bump up the charge.

And a larger shot. Methinks #2 at a minimum for fox.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'd go with 1-1/4 oz shot and 80 gr FFg. If the pattern is too open drop back to 75 gr.

#5 is my favorite for bunnies.

The 'ol Kit Ravenshear rhyme

More powder,
Less lead
Up close,
Wide spread.

Less powder,
More lead.
Shoots far,
Kills dead.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Did you follow up on the fox, it may of lay down for the last time a distance away.
Was he broadside?
Have you patterned the gun?
Does it shoot where you are looking?

At 25 yds it should be toast! I bets the shot pattern was off it!

Regards shot size#4 is too big for rabbit and fox under 30yds in my experience.

B :hatsoff:

 

[azmntman]

That's a good rabbit load, if you're gonna hunt fox's then bump up the charge.

And a larger shot. Methinks #2 at a minimum for fox.

:metoo:

 

[krankieone]

Phil Coffins in most circumstances it makes good sense to use plastic wad cups I don't like leaveing them in the padock as the cows can eat them but I will chase some up for when I'm shooting elsewhere.

Stumpkiller will try that load as a starting point

Britsmoothy couldnt find where he went after he went through the creek about 400 yards away,he was quartering away so not ideal. This was the first time I have taken this gun out I fired a shot from each barrel at a eucalyptus tree to check function both hit the tree at 30 yards but I haven't patterned it yet

 

[coloradoclyde]

The shot was taken at 25 yards I would not shoot no 4 shot at game over 50 yards

Sorry!....My mistake..... :redface:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Good effort mate.

Hmm, this is why I like slightly smaller shot. More strikes.
Too much emphasis is placed on individual pellet energy hence recommendations for larger shot.
The old timers worked out a shot load works collectively, there is an accumulative effect.
If a single pellet or two is considered the way forward we are in fact using a low powered rifle of a tiny bore! Without precise shot placement!!

My own tests involving a 410 and #7 shot have shown at 33 paces #7 shot makes the other side of a fox's chest. There was if I remember correctly 14 pellets against the far ribs. Hence my recommendation to #5-1&1/4oz for Charlie from a front loader 12g.

B :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

I don't know your foxes or their size, and haven't shot one of our own with a shotgun. But I might be able to offer a few insights if there's any crossover between your circumstances and my own. I've taken several coyotes with shotugns while bird hunting in places outside Alaska, and I'm guessing they average around 20# or 10 kilos.

I was startled by each of them and they were on the run. I didn't get a solid hit on them (all #5 or #6 shot) on the first shot, but dropped them on the second. I was using my trusty modern 20 gauge /U with 1 oz loads, so similar to yours but almost certainly at a little higher velocity. I shoot a Skeet I barrel and and IC barrel for birds, with the SKI first, so that's my guess as to choke. Pretty open. Each has "jumped" as you describe on the first shot. All of them were roughly in that 25-yard range you describe. Due to the requirement for the second shot (due mostly to marginal first hits) I'm going to say my load was marginal.

Switching back to muzzleloaders where the discussion belongs, the only thing I see really different between your loads and those for my own 12 SxS with CYL chokes in both barrels is in the powder charge. In my 12 equal volumes of 2f and shot and a similar wad array gives marginal patterns at 25 yards. I get a noticeable improvement with 2f when I decrease the powder charge to 10% less volume of powder than shot. I get an even more significant improvement with a switch to 1f powder and an increase in charge back up to the same volume of powder as shot. Notably I get the same kind of improvement with the switch from 2f to 1f in both 20 gauge and 10 gauge. All of mine just seem to prefer 1f for best patterning.

As for more "power" for you loads, I'd be looking for smoother and tighter patterns, which the switch to 1f gives me. It's still not a long range affair due to the CYL barrels (long being anything much past 25 yards in 12 gauge) but added shot would most assuredly help on fox. If you wanted something of an extension of range, I'd try 1 1/8 or at most 1 1/4 oz of shot and equal volumes of 1f. Or if 1f is unavailable, I'd try 10% less powder than shot by volume of 2f. But I'd also do some dedicated patterning at different ranges, both to evaluate patterns and determine your effective range limits.

 

[Rifleman1776]

My own tests involving a 410 and #7 shot have shown at 33 paces #7 shot makes the other side of a fox's chest. There was if I remember correctly 14 pellets against the far ribs. Hence my recommendation to #5-1&1/4oz for Charlie from a front loader 12g.

Nothing like personal experience. But, have to admit the above is surprising. As a young person I was given a SxS, very fine (modern) shotgun in .410 ga/caliber. I hunted pheasants, squirrels and rabbits with it and do not recall ever killing anything. I saw rabbits get hit, get up and run off with blood on their fur. Pitiful weak firearm and ammo. That was nearly 70 years ago, I believe our ammo and bp is improved these days. But, I'm still not a fan of the .410.

 

[Feltwad]

For a 25 yard shot at a fox using an original muzzle loader what load you need is 3Drms of FFg to 1.1/8 oz of No 5 Shot. For a original with Damascus barrels keep off plastic wads they will ruin your barrels all you need is two 1/8 card wads over the powder and 1/16 over the shot This load will kill any fox at that range if pointed in the right direction ,
Feltwad

 

[azmntman]

My own tests involving a 410 and #7 shot have shown at 33 paces #7 shot makes the other side of a fox's chest. There was if I remember correctly 14 pellets against the far ribs. Hence my recommendation to #5-1&1/4oz for Charlie from a front loader 12g.

Nothing like personal experience. But, have to admit the above is surprising. As a young person I was given a SxS, very fine (modern) shotgun in .410 ga/caliber. I hunted pheasants, squirrels and rabbits with it and do not recall ever killing anything. I saw rabbits get hit, get up and run off with blood on their fur. Pitiful weak firearm and ammo. That was nearly 70 years ago, I believe our ammo and bp is improved these days. But, I'm still not a fan of the .410.

:metoo: My experience is same, HARD to kill a tree rat with a .410 shot gun (modern anyway, never tried bp)

 

[jrmflintlock]

SO I have no experience shooting foxes but for turkeys the "Skychief special" gives me a lot denser patterns out of my percussion 12 gauge SxS.

I have yet to try it out of my new 20 gauge fowler but...

My load is:
-70 grains Goex FFg
-A Hard over powder card or 3 of the thin over shot cards.
-100 Grain equivalent of #6 lead Shot
-A thin Over shot Card
Lastly, a sloppy wet with vegetable oil cushion wad.

Strange I know to put the veg wad on top but it works!!

 

[gonpce]

I have a similar turkey load that works great.
70 gr 3f
half a cushion wad (dry)
1 1/8 oz 5 shot
whole lubed cushion wad
gives a very nice pattern

 

[Rifleman1776]

For a 25 yard shot at a fox using an original muzzle loader what load you need is 3Drms of FFg to 1.1/8 oz of No 5 Shot. For a original with Damascus barrels keep off plastic wads they will ruin your barrels all you need is two 1/8 card wads over the powder and 1/16 over the shot This load will kill any fox at that range if pointed in the right direction ,
Feltwad

Voice of experience. Thanks for that information. :thumbsup:

 

[Lorne Johnson]

I would be cautious about going over 1or maybe 1 1/8 ounces in an original British gun. They often built light guns that handle like wand, not a club. And, you've got 150 year old barrels on it.

I shoot originals pretty regularly, and use 1 oz of 6's on pheasants. That works great at 25 yards, unless (of course) I miss. Fox is a bigger, tougher animal, likely to take a while to expire.