Interesting info from the Lewis and Clark expedition

September 11, 1804
William Clark

here the Man who left us with the horses 22 (16) days ago George Shannon He started 26 Augt.) and has been a head ever since joined us nearly Starved to Death, he had been 12 days without any thing to eate but Grapes & one Rabit, which he Killed by shooting a piece of hard Stick in place of a ball. … thus a man had like to have Starved to death in a land of Plenty for the want of Bullitts or Something to kill his meat. … I saw Several foxes & Killed a Elk & 2 Deer & Squirels. the men with me killed an Elk, 2 Deer & a Pelican

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That is the diary entry from Clark.

longcruise said:

The read is interesting and goes way beyond the twig bullet question. A very interesting fellow and a very interesting life.

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I agree .. interesting read indeed.

springfield art said:

I saw a guy in basic training, had accidently stuck mud in the flash hider of his M-14, when he shot it, the "fingers" of the hider were splayed out just like a Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd cartoon! (1960's, the M-14's were semi-auto only in basic.) I don't think they made a big deal out of it, it was simply an educational accident! BTW, that the L&C Expedition did all that, and lost no guys in the doing, is amazing! They were all Army, so maybe that was to their advantage; were used to some organized discipline.

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I was in the next post at the rifle range at Ft. Carson, the NCO? on the firing line had forgotten to remove the blank adapter from his M-16, when the "Commence Fire" was given, the whole firing line got one round off before whole operation came to a screeching halt. The Range Officer and NCO walked the entire line, checked every weapon!! Let's just say a good time was not had by all personnel involved.

Rabbits are not hard to kill. You can kill them with a rock and slingshot.
Yes I have.

I had not heard this tale of Lewis & Clark before now. But, I have heard of old timers around here using gravels or rock salt. It may have been more common than we think.

I have also used different types of projectiles in both rifled and smooth bore muzzleloaders (but not as many or as wacky as Maniac). I have used small sticks, gravels, glass marbles and even steel BBs. And no, a few shots (like two or three) with these projectiles did not ruin the barrels of my guns. In a survival situation, that would be the last of my worries.

It's not hard to believe that he would have done this.
I believe in fact that a lot of people , for hundreds of years, used wood slugs on small game at short ranges simply to save lead.
Using a bolt does not work as it tumbles going through the air, you need a round or semi round piece of wood , it cannot be longer than it is in diameter. About the same distance long as it is wide, if it has a good patch it can be as accurate at short ranges of 50 to 75 ft as a lead ball would be at the same range , although it does of course not have anywhere near the energy or velocity.

I've heard the Japanese were using slugs made of bamboo at the end of the war because they were running out of materials.

There is an air rifle in the Lewis and Clark museum on highway 83 that is one of our favorite places to visit when we are in that particular area.

I don't know if it's the same exact air rifle that was carried , or if it is a replica of the original, I'll have to check it out next time we get over that way,
Last time I was there I had to take my 4x4 over to leave at a mechanic so he can do some work on it we should be that way in a few weeks and I'll get some pictures for those here who are interested.

I remember reading that they were passing around the air rifle , everyone looking it over and one fella discharged it and the bullet hit a woman in the head and knocked her dizzy for some time , although she was not seriously or permanently injured thereafter

Wireforhire said:

I remembered stories of the Japanese using wooden bullets during WW2. So, if you Google it, you'll get a lot of different information on the subject.

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I remember story of the Germans using wooden bullets after running short of lead. It turns out these cartridges were propellant charges for rifle grenades.

Ohio Rusty said:

There was a L&C member named George Shannon who got lost for 12 days looking for horses that ran off. To keep from starving, he shot rabbits with short pieces of sticks from his rifle as he ran out of lead round ball. That is a very interesting piece of information. Can anyone expound on how he may have done that and what his 'ammo' may have looked like ??
Ohio Rusty ><>

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He may have used a lot of patch or wadding material around the stick to seal the projectile in the barrel. --- I have heard of soldiers shooting arrows from their muzzleloaders when they were running dangerously low on lead. They were under Indian attack and "returned" some of the arrows to the Indians.

springfield art said:

I saw a guy in basic training, had accidently stuck mud in the flash hider of his M-14, when he shot it, the "fingers" of the hider were splayed out just like a Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd cartoon! (1960's, the M-14's were semi-auto only in basic.) I don't think they made a big deal out of it, it was simply an educational accident! BTW, that the L&C Expedition did all that, and lost no guys in the doing, is amazing! They were all Army, so maybe that was to their advantage; were used to some organized discipline.

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There was one fatality on the entire Lewis & Clark expedition. One man died of an appendicitis attack, Sgt. Charles Floyd. His death was not directly related to the mission. They named a creek, Floyd Creek, in his honor. He was buried nearby.

Ohio Rusty said:

There was a L&C member named George Shannon who got lost for 12 days looking for horses that ran off. To keep from starving, he shot rabbits with short pieces of sticks from his rifle as he ran out of lead round ball. That is a very interesting piece of information. Can anyone expound on how he may have done that and what his 'ammo' may have looked like ??
Ohio Rusty ><>

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I once read about two frontiersmen that got lost from their hunting party. They survived sometime in the wild with only 2 lead musket balls. When they shot some game, sometimes a buffalo, they would dig out the lead ball and pop it into their mouth. Using their teeth, they would round out the ball as much as possible and reuse it.

Confirmation from another source.

Per a short research stint... I remember reading this now that you reminded me .... so thanks!

This youngest member of the Corps had a reputation for wandering off and getting lost. He usually worked as a hunter on shore ahead of the boats to feed the Corps. He usually had horses at his disposal for hunting.

Your source was correct. Young George got out ahead of his party and went missing in Sept 1804. The private ran out of lead, began to starve, and resorted to sticks to shoot rabbits for food. He was missing from Aug. 26 to Sept. 11, 1804. They were in Nebraska.

here the man who left us [NB: George Shannon ] with the horses 22 [NB: 16] days ago [NB: He started 26 Augt.] and has been a head ever Since joined, us nearly Starved to Death, he had been 12 days without any thing to eate but Grapes & one Rabit, which he Killed by shooting a piece of hard Stick in place of a ball—. This man Supposeing the boat to be a head pushed on as long as he Could, when he became weak and fiable deturmined to lay by and waite for a tradeing boat, which is expected [5] Keeping one horse for the last resorse,— thus a man had like to have Starved to death in a land of Plenty for the want of Bulletes or Something to kill his meat.

They would be at Travelers Rest exactly 1 year from the same day George was reunited with the Corps.

After the journey William Clark assigned George and Sgt. Pryor to return Indian chiefs back to Mandan. Shannon lost his leg in an Indian skirmish doing that.

sethwyo said:

There is an air rifle in the Lewis and Clark museum on highway 83 that is one of our favorite places to visit when we are in that particular area.

I don't know if it's the same exact air rifle that was carried , or if it is a replica of the original, I'll have to check it out next time we get over that way,
Last time I was there I had to take my 4x4 over to leave at a mechanic so he can do some work on it we should be that way in a few weeks and I'll get some pictures for those here who are interested.

I remember reading that they were passing around the air rifle , everyone looking it over and one fella discharged it and the bullet hit a woman in the head and knocked her dizzy for some time , although she was not seriously or permanently injured thereafter

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It is a replica. FT Mandan is where we have most of our club rendezvous.

Ohio Rusty said:

There was a L&C member named George Shannon who got lost for 12 days looking for horses that ran off. To keep from starving, he shot rabbits with short pieces of sticks from his rifle as he ran out of lead round ball. That is a very interesting piece of information. Can anyone expound on how he may have done that and what his 'ammo' may have looked like ??
Ohio Rusty ><>

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My predecessors called sticks through the air arrows and thrived quite well for a few thousand years with nothing better.