.45 shooters what's the advantage over the 50 ?

One of the many things I totally enjoy about muzzleloading is , for some folks , rifle calibers , "evolve". I would be one of those shooter, builders.
Started out shooting factory guns , with most other Sunday afternoon offhand paper shooters. Started seeing a couple folks with custom guns. I stopped into Dick and Donnie Getz barrel shop one afternoon after work , and told them I had built a rifle or two ,and was interested in precarved m/l gun stocks. They sent me over the mountain to Fred Millers shop. Fred was doing stocks for a m/l building class at a local high school . He was precarving m/l longrifle stocks for the class , on a home made router setup. He had an extra"C" WT. T+F Getz barrel in .50 , inletted into a sort of Berks Co. . This rifle was a joy. Any deer in m/l season within 125 yds. was dead. Though the .50 was 9 + lb , I was young and strong , and it was accurate beyond a dream. After 1975 I shot exclusively iron silhouette target marches. Remembering back in the paper punching target days , there were guys using .45 cal. rifles to 100 yds. giving impressive results. So, I built a .45 cal. Ohio plains flint rifle, and using it on the 200 yd . offhand iron bear target. Results.......The .45 wouldn't knock the bear over consistently, like my .50 would. So much of my hunting opportunities were at 100+ yards, I abandoned the .45 cal. rifle. . My overall fun rifle is the .40. Almost anything put down the bore shoots ok. .............oldwood

bldtrailer said:

what's the advantage over the 50 or 54

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IME: None

hanshi said:

Old thread I haven't been to in months, but I noticed I never responded to your post, Flashpoint. I have a .45 longrifle 36" X 13/16" X 1-56" twist X 7 lbs. This has been my primary deer hunting rifle for years. It's light, handy, accurate and never had to fire but one shot to drop a deer. The other 3 range from a 32" X 1" X gain twist X 7 lbs & 13 oz - a 25" X 15/16" X 6 lbs & 2 oz - and a "B" wgt X 38" X "Hoyt" radius groove.
Advantages? That's very subjective. Recoil: recoil doesn't bother ME and isn't an issue. But for some it may make a difference. .45 recoil is much lighter than a .50 and scarcely more than a .40. Rifle weight is usually substantially less depending on barrel size and stock wood density. Difference in cost of lead & powder are fairly minor since my loads for both are similar and often identical. I no longer hunt deer so I only occasionally shoot hunting loads in them (60 grains to 70 grains for both). Most of my shooting is with a .32 and a .36 anyway. With a 65 grain load of 3F I killed one deer at 75 yards with in/out penetration, a blood trail and a very short run. The heaviest blood trail I've yet witnessed was a buck I shot with my .45.

The .440" ball vs the .445" ball. Choice will depend upon the individual rifle. One rifle I own needs a .440" or less. The others shoot both weights wonderfully. A .445" may give a little more speed or better accuracy in some barrels but only adds 4 to 5 grains max to the .440" ball. I load rather tight prb and the .445" is noticeably more snug than the .440"; but both load easily with the underbarrel wood rod. Both balls are patched with .024" canvas patches I precut. But also know that my .50 X B wgt X 38" flintlock is only 2 oz heavier than my #1 .45.

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Thanks Hanshi for the follow up information. I will try a .445 as I have a box of them and see what happens. Flashpoint!

I'll stick with my T/C Hawken 45! I've taken several deer with her & all have dropped in their tracks( neck shots). 50 Grains. 3F under a 440 rb/w pillow ticking& toilet bowl wax( wax ring seal) has worked great for over 30 yrs.

keichristy said:

I'll stick with my T/C Hawken 45! I've taken several deer with her & all have dropped in their tracks( neck shots). 50 Grains. 3F under a 440 rb/w pillow ticking& toilet bowl wax( wax ring seal) has worked great for over 30 yrs.

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My mom hunted 30+ years with a .45 calibre CVA Frontier Rifle. Family blackpowder hunts were common in our family for years…only once did I have to track one of her deer more than 50 yrds.

The .45 calibre PRB is plenty for deer sized Big Game.

bldtrailer said:

I'm planning a new build and I'm thinking .45 (I don't have one yet) what's the advantage over the 50 or 54 (40 is out not permitted in pa for deer )
Mr C Dixon loved the 45 .

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If you are planning on shooting roundballs only, I can’t help you except to highly recommend getting a faster twist .45 to shoot conicals. Then the BC of the .45 bullets can come into play & using faster, flatter shooting bullets with less recoil than a .50.

LME said:

The bear in my area was the reason I went to a .54 cal. I find it strange that some say a .45 cal rifle is lighter than a .54 cal.? the out side of the barrel of the rifles I have seen have been the same diameter regardless of the cal.? that being the case a .45 cal rifle would be heavier that a .50 or .54. cal one. I have never owned a .45 nor have I ever held one in my hand. This is just a personal observation.

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LME said:

These are usual measurements: 45s are 13/16", 7/8" or 15/16" across the flats. 50s are 15/16" or 1". 54s are 15/16", 1" or 1 1/8". So, a 45 could be lighter than a 50 or 54.

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Walt

I don’t see too many folks shooting 45s. Of those that come to mind, two are custom rifles while my wife has a nice Pedersoli “Poor Boy” with a beautiful Cherry wood stock.

Many decades back CVA and Thompson Center made guns in 45, 50, 54, and 58 calibers. They both discontinued their 45 and 58 caliber guns, keeping the 50 and 54. Later on, they followed the industry standard and settled on 50.

Walk into almost any Sporting goods store that sells Muzzleloading supplies, and you can, under normal circumstances find 50-caliber patches, balls, and cleaning accessories like brushes and jags.

While the two mentioned hunt with their custom rifles, others prefer 50 for deer and some won’t be caught in the woods with anything less than a 54.

Just my two cents!

Walt

I've had other calibers in the past, but the .45 has been my rifle for a very long time. The ability to load up for deer and load down for squirrel and such has always been one of its best characteristics, I think. With a light squirrel load it's almost as quiet as my air rifle! Light weight, cheap & easy to feed, tack-driving accuracy, and extreme versatility. Yep, it's the rifle caliber for me.

Edited to add: My Southern poor boy is a custom build that sports a 44" swamped and tapered barrel that makes it a delight to carry as well as shoot. I've had to add a peep sight due to my aging eyes, but if I can rest it on anything I can reach out and touch my target at a distance. I don't when hunting. Do pretty well off-hand too.

BP Addict said:

I don’t see too many folks shooting 45s. Of those that come to mind, two are custom rifles while my wife has a nice Pedersoli “Poor Boy” with a beautiful Cherry wood stock.

Many decades back CVA and Thompson Center made guns in 45, 50, 54, and 58 calibers. They both discontinued their 45 and 58 caliber guns, keeping the 50 and 54. Later on, they followed the industry standard and settled on 50.

Walk into almost any Sporting goods store that sells Muzzleloading supplies, and you can, under normal circumstances find 50-caliber patches, balls, and cleaning accessories like brushes and jags.

While the two mentioned hunt with their custom rifles, others prefer 50 for deer and some won’t be caught in the woods with anything less than a 54.

Just my two cents!

Walt

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I found that out when I tried to buy some things for my .54 M.L,s . Of all the things you mentioned that are hard to find for .45 ,.54 and .58 calibers I can get by without with all the gadgets I have in my shop but the one thing that is as scarce as hens teeth that I actually need is bullets and ball! Fate has a strange way of raiseing its ugly head but I don't shoot much any more so it doesn't matter?

LME said:

I found that out when I tried to buy some things for my .54 M.L,s . Of all the things you mentioned that are hard to find for .45 ,.54 and .58 calibers I can get by without with all the gadgets I have in my shop but the one thing that is as scarce as hens teeth that I actually need is bullets and ball! Fate has a strange way of raiseing its ugly head but I don't shoot much any more so it doesn't matter?

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That's why I have a mould for each caliber I shoot

Homesteader said:

That's why I have a mould for each caliber I shoot

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Same here…as soon as I get a new calibre, I ask myself…”What do I need to shoot this gun forever?“

Aside from the general caps, flints & powder…I go buy it. Currently, I’m slowly converting select guns from caplocks to flintlocks…and I’m slowly learning to knap my own flints. So, POWDER

bldtrailer said:

I'm planning a new build and I'm thinking .45 (I don't have one yet) what's the advantage over the 50 or 54 (40 is out not permitted in pa for deer )
Mr C Dixon loved the 45 .

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I got a lot of enjoyment with reduced loads in a 45. About half the 3F as used in deer loads. Same POI at 25 yards and great fun for small game. That can also be done with a 50 but 45 is way better. My next flutter will be a 36.

Over the years I have owned and shot many different calibers, 32, 36, 38, 40, 44, 45, 50 and 54 All have advantages and disadvantages. I seem to have settled on the 45 as being my best compromise, As a hunting rifle it will take a deer. You get a good number of balls from a lb. of lead and doesn't use as much powder to get a good velocity. In my experience does a decent job of bucking the wind.

ronaldrothb49 said:

Over the years I have owned and shot many different calibers, 32, 36, 38, 40, 44, 45, 50 and 54 All have advantages and disadvantages. I seem to have settled on the 45 as being my best compromise, As a hunting rifle it will take a deer. You get a good number of balls from a lb. of lead and doesn't use as much powder to get a good velocity. In my experience does a decent job of bucking the wind.

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I would be interested in a précis of your opinions of each calibre. I’ve shot most of those calibres listed, I have my thoughts…but I’d be interested in your impressions.

Rock Home Isle said:

I would be interested in a précis of your opinions of each calibre. I’ve shot most of those calibres listed, I have my thoughts…but I’d be interested in your impressions.

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First I will qualify that 99% of my shooting has been in competition so I can't even begin to estimate how many thousands of shots I have fired. I was a very active shooter with several clubs in the past.

32 a pound of powder and a couple pounds of lead and you can shoot forever. makes for a nice light rifle for a lady or kids. good plinking rifle. Good for hunting squirrels or rabbits. If the wind is blowing you should probably leave it at home.

36 again doesn't use a lot of powder or lead. Good for plinking makes a nice light rifle for the ladies or kids. good for rabbits and squirrels. A little better in the wind but not much.

38 kind of an odd ball caliber. It was hard to find a mold for this one. Good match rifle out to 50 yards. The wind could play with it a little at 100 yards.

40 I probably have won more matches with this one than any other rifle I ever had. It was a Douglas barrel and was almost smoothbore when I retired it. Good count on number of balls per pound of lead. Doesn't use a lot of powder. Reasonable weight on a rifle. excellent accuracy but the wind does play with it some at 100 yards. While there are no caliber restrictions for hunting where I live now it isn't legal in other states I have lived in.

44 nothing good to say about this one. Never could find a load that gave me the kind of accuracy I was looking for. Gave it to my brother-in-law who used it for hunting.

45 good ball count doesn't use a lot of powder You can make anything from light to heavy depending on barrel size. I've made rifles just over 6 pounds to just under 14 pounds a very versatile caliber. does pretty good in the wind. legal to hunt with anywhere I've lived. I have 5 barrels in the workshop including one Douglas all are 45s.

50 Good hunting or match caliber. Does good in the wind. little more powder and lead. Works good for a light bench or cross stick rifle. It can tend to kick you in a lighter rifle.

54 good hunting rifle good accuracy for match shooting but these things eat powder and lead. This one will kick pretty good in a lighter rifle with hunting charges.

ronaldrothb49 said:

First I will qualify that 99% of my shooting has been in competition so I can't even begin to estimate how many thousands of shots I have fired. I was a very active shooter with several clubs in the past.

32 a pound of powder and a couple pounds of lead and you can shoot forever. makes for a nice light rifle for a lady or kids. good plinking rifle. Good for hunting squirrels or rabbits. If the wind is blowing you should probably leave it at home.

36 again doesn't use a lot of powder or lead. Good for plinking makes a nice light rifle for the ladies or kids. good for rabbits and squirrels. A little better in the wind but not much.

38 kind of an odd ball caliber. It was hard to find a mold for this one. Good match rifle out to 50 yards. The wind could play with it a little at 100 yards.

40 I probably have won more matches with this one than any other rifle I ever had. It was a Douglas barrel and was almost smoothbore when I retired it. Good count on number of balls per pound of lead. Doesn't use a lot of powder. Reasonable weight on a rifle. excellent accuracy but the wind does play with it some at 100 yards. While there are no caliber restrictions for hunting where I live now it isn't legal in other states I have lived in.

44 nothing good to say about this one. Never could find a load that gave me the kind of accuracy I was looking for. Gave it to my brother-in-law who used it for hunting.

45 good ball count doesn't use a lot of powder You can make anything from light to heavy depending on barrel size. does pretty good in the wind. legal to hunt with anywhere I've lived. I have 5 barrels in the workshop including one Douglas all are 45s.

50 Good hunting or match caliber. Does good in the wind. little more powder and lead. Works good for a light bench or cross stick rifle. It can tend to kick you in a lighter rifle.

54 good hunting rifle good accuracy for match shooting but these things eat powder and lead. This one will kick pretty good in a lighter rifle with hunting charges.

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I had no idea of your actual personal shooting history, but I could tell that you had knowledge

Very fine presentation. Wonderful

I would pick three calibers for my shooting adventures: first would be a .36 caliber for small game, second would be a .45 for medium game / target shooting, and third would be .54 caliber for larger game. I own all three plus a .38 caliber, a .40 caliber, a .50 caliber, a 20 gauge, two 12 gage SXS, and a 10 gage SXS. They all have their places in my muzzle loading world.

Homesteader said:

I've had other calibers in the past, but the .45 has been my rifle for a very long time. The ability to load up for deer and load down for squirrel and such has always been one of its best characteristics, I think. With a light squirrel load it's almost as quiet as my air rifle! Light weight, cheap & easy to feed, tack-driving accuracy, and extreme versatility. Yep, it's the rifle caliber for me.

Edited to add: My Southern poor boy is a custom build that sports a 44" swamped and tapered barrel that makes it a delight to carry as well as shoot. I've had to add a peep sight due to my aging eyes, but if I can rest it on anything I can reach out and touch my target at a distance. I don't when hunting. Do pretty well off-hand too.

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Any chance we can see a pic of that peep sight?

ZUG said:

I would pick three calibers for my shooting adventures: first would be a .36 caliber for small game, second would be a .45 for medium game / target shooting, and third would be .54 caliber for larger game. I own all three plus a .38 caliber, a .40 caliber, a .50 caliber, a 20 gauge, two 12 gage SXS, and a 10 gage SXS. They all have their places in my muzzle loading world.

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I was just thinking about this last night, while watching the neighborhood fireworks displays.