Italian? Hawken (i think) restooring

Hello all,
I am very new to muzzleloading, I have two, my first is a traditions tracker 209 that i picked up this January and have yet to fire, but the second is what brought me here today. Earlier today i picked up an Italian (or Italian barreled at any rate) repro of a hawken rifle (i think) in…less than perfect shape. The bore seems to be in decent shape, there was some rust on the barrel which i dumbly tried to remove with rust remover….I should’ve known better as it removed all the bluing just fine and left the rust. Oh well, I’ll fix that later. What I’m really wondering is how do i remove the percussion nipple? It seems different than the ones in videos I’ve seen. Any tips on that (and any experience with an Armsport hawken) would be greatly appreciated
Also I’ll keep updating on the rifle and my experiences

You should purchase a nipple wrench from somewhere like track of the wolf, or one of many vendors out there that sell muzzleloading supplies. Otherwise an ignition wrench could work.

if you are handy they are easy to make from a 3/8 inch bolt. drill a 3/16 inch hole in the end, use a hack saw to cut across the end on either side of the hole about 5/16 deep use a file to create ears.
or order one from totw, dixie, the muzzloaderbuilders, october country etc. even ebay

Very first. Check to see if it is loaded.
If the nipple is frozen you may need some heat .

Before reading any more flood that nipple with some oil!

The nipple looks like any other. What may look different is some percussion guns have a barrel shaped drum, but on your gun it is cast or machined with the breech plug. That's pretty common on mass-produced guns. Works the same, just looks different.

That nipple looks funny to me. The cone is quite short, and it appears to have a very large, square shoulder, like a musket nipple. The first thing you'll want to do is put some calipers on it and measure the shoulder, so you get the right size wrench. If it is a standard sporting-sized nipple, get a proper, heavy-duty nipple wrench. If it is a musket nipple base with a cone sized for sporting caps (which is what it looks like), the square base should be 1/4", or .250". Get a 5/16" socket with a quarter inch drive and a 5/16" Allen wrench. Turn the socket upside down so the square drive is on the nipple and put the short leg of the Allen wrench in the hex end of the socket to use as a handle.

Make sure the barrel is unloaded. If you don't know how to do that, ask and we will tell you. This is very important.

When you are sure it is unloaded, stand the barrel in a corner with the breech immersed in a can of kerosene (the original penetrating oil). Leave it alone for at least three days. Then, take it out, dry off the outside and empty any kerosene that may be in the barrel. Clamp it in smooth vise jaws and try to turn out that nipple. If it won't budge, heat the area with a torch. You don't have to get it red hot, just heat it up. Then try to turn out the nipple. If it still won't come, walk away and let it cool, then come back later and heat it again, and try again. If it still won't come, let it cool and put it back in the kerosene for a few more days before trying again.

This ought to get it out. I've seen much worse. If it still won't come, check back in, and the combined efforts of the Muzzleloading Forum Brain Trust (MLFBT) will assist.

Good luck!

Notchy Bob

Armsport was the importer not the maker. Investarm (Italian) was one of the makers Armsport imported for. Look for a capital I inside a square stamped on the barrel. Italian date code should also be stamped on it as well.

Alright, sounds like a couple days project so I’ll set that up in some oil or kerosene and let it sit while I work on the other items. Thanks all of you! I’ll update with more questions about the lock/trigger assembly etc later today

Would it be alright to also pour some kerosene/oil down the barrel to get at the nipple from both ends?

To check if it is loaded if you haven’t already, take a ramrod and run it down the barrel. It should go to about 1/2”-3/4” in front of the joint on the breech plug (the part of the plug holding the nipple). Mark the rod (I usually just use my thumb by grasping the rod at the muzzle). Pull the rod and hold it along the barrel and it should be close to that 1/2”-3/4” in front of the breech plug/barrel joint.

I have checked and it is unloaded, thanks!

Is there any way to get the trigger assembly out? I unscrewed the only screw holding it in that I could find and it won’t budge.

How do I disassemble the lock? It has the coil spring which i know i need to compress somehow to get it apart but how do i do that?

Well. Allow me to say I’m very proud of myself for the lock. Ive pretty much given up on making this a “nice” rifle, it’s gonna be my working rifle that I’m not afraid to bring out into the snow or get some dirt on so I’m not worrying myself about polishing the brass or refinishing the wood or stuff like that anymore BUT. I took the lock COMPLETELY apart, this thing was blued at one point but the outside was surface rust by now and the inside was coated in grimy grease. Took it completely apart which I’ve never done on a sidelock even though I’ve had my sidelock double shotgun for a couple years now. Anyway, cleaned and reoiled everything and managed to get it back together and….well I’ll let the pics speak