Excessive Fouling in my Cabela's .50 Hawken 1:48 twist

[Crane Senior]

I've been shooting this rife for several years, it's currently my only bp rifle. I have a couple of questions about what I view as excessive fouling. First my current target load is 60 gr Goex 2f, .015 patch with mink oil and a .495 ball. I can get a couple of shots off before cleaning but it shoots best cleaning between each shot; I definitely clean between shots during a match. I see some of the guys at matches that shoot all day without cleaning between shots.

This fall I was going to take it hunting and was working up loads as large as 90 gr of 2f. It was too much for the rifle, the amount of residual fouling after a shot at 80-90 gr was amazing, it just wouldn't work. So, now I'm considering having the barrel rifling refreshed by Mr. Hoyt for deeper groves. Is there something I've missed here? I've tried multiple patches and lubes but the mink oil patching seems to be the best.

 

[Stykbow]

How hard is it to load for the first shot with that patch & ball combo? I wonder if it’s borderline too tight right out of the gate and any fouling at all pushes it to the point of no return. Maybe a smaller ball & thinner patch combo will help if it’ll shoot it well.

 

[Crane Senior]

How hard is it to load for the first shot with that patch & ball combo? I wonder if it’s borderline too tight right out of the gate and any fouling at all pushes it to the point of no return. Maybe a smaller ball & thinner patch combo will help if it’ll shoot it well.

Actually, that is the best fit from all that I've tried from .010 up to .020. I've even tried a spit patch with the .015 material and that's a nice fit but doesn't seem to do much to reduce fouling.

 

[Stykbow]

Strange…I wouldn’t think the fouling would be bad enough to make loading difficult after a couple of shots. As of yet, I’ve not found it necessary to swab at all while at the range, but that’s neither here nor there. Is your bore in good shape? No pitting?

 

[Christophero]

Heavy fouling with 80 grains of FFg is why I tried 65 grains of FFFg in my 50 many years ago and never went back. Same velocity, exceptional accuracy and more shots per pound. I use the same load in all my 50's, conical or PRB. Saying this, the T/C Renegade could shoot 20 maxihunters without a need to swab the bore. Other makes would demand a swab between every 3 or so shots.

 

[Roundball 54]

If your bore is in good shape l would think you probably are not using enough lube on your patches . Try 3f powder , it will produce less fouling than 2f powder . Saturate those patches well with lube . I have used mink oil a lot in matches , shoot all day and never have to swab .

 

[Crane Senior]

Heavy fouling with 80 grains of FFg is why I tried 65 grains of FFFg in my 50 many years ago and never went back. Same velocity, exceptional accuracy and more shots per pound. I use the same load in all my 50's, conical or PRB. Saying this, the T/C Renegade could shoot 20 maxihunters without a need to swab the bore. Other makes would demand a swab between every 3 or so shots.

I thought about 3F. Interesting in looking at Pedersoli. Manuel it doesn’t recommend 3F. But I may look at that. Thanks.

 

[Crane Senior]

If your bore is in good shape l would think you probably are not using enough lube on your patches . Try 3f powder , it will produce less fouling than 2f powder . Saturate those patches well with lube . I have used mink oil a lot in matches , shoot all day and never have to swab .

The bore is spotless I clean same day I shoot. However the groves are shallow. I had a Green Mountain barrel for another gun and the groves were deeper on that but it was also a 1:60 (I think) twist if that means anything. I think the patches are well lubed but I’ll look at that again. Again, I’m going to look at 3F. Thank you.

 

[Crane Senior]

Strange…I wouldn’t think the fouling would be bad enough to make loading difficult after a couple of shots. As of yet, I’ve not found it necessary to swab at all while at the range, but that’s neither here nor there. Is your bore in good shape? No pitting?

No pitting the bore is clean. I’ve even lapped it with scotchguard pads to make sure I had the burrs out. Thanks though.

 

[Christophero]

" I thought about 3F. Interesting in looking at Pedersoli. Manuel it doesn’t recommend 3F. But I may look at that. Thanks."

My manuals didn't suggest FFFg either. Talking with those more experienced that I encouraged me to give it a shot (pun intended). It works very well, and I've since learned many others have found this out, also.

 

[SDSmlf]

I've been shooting this rife for several years, it's currently my only bp rifle. I have a couple of questions about what I view as excessive fouling. First my current target load is 60 gr Goex 2f, .015 patch with mink oil and a .495 ball. I can get a couple of shots off before cleaning but it shoots best cleaning between each shot; I definitely clean between shots during a match. I see some of the guys at matches that shoot all day without cleaning between shots.

This fall I was going to take it hunting and was working up loads as large as 90 gr of 2f. It was too much for the rifle, the amount of residual fouling after a shot at 80-90 gr was amazing, it just wouldn't work. So, now I'm considering having the barrel rifling refreshed by Mr. Hoyt for deeper groves. Is there something I've missed here? I've tried multiple patches and lubes but the mink oil patching seems to be the best.

There are many ways to polish and smooth up a bore and make it easier to load. Here is a @duelist1954 video showing the process he used on a difficult to load GPR.



I have used a similar method with Scotch-Brite for some time, but Mike explains his very well. I started doing it after speaking to Don Getz (Getz Barrel) years ago before he passed, and he recommended using the green (600 grit) Scotch-Brite for smoothing up barrels that were cutting patches and difficult to load. Said it wouldn’t hurt the barrel.

 

[dave951]

You can shoot 3f and if you use Swiss, you'll probably find the fouling problem pretty much solved. I shoot nothing but 3f in all my competition guns- 54cal, 58cal and 69cal with no ill effect.

 

[Christophero]

The video above is helpful. It was suggested to me and I watched it this past Fall after purchasing an older GPR that the bore needed addressed. I started out with Scotchbrite pads and graduated to Clover Valve Lapping Compound liberally applied to the Scotchbrite pads. Takes quite a bit of elbow grease but the results were worth it. May be something for you to look into.

 

[dave951]

The video above is helpful. It was suggested to me and I watched it this past Fall after purchasing an older GPR that the bore needed addressed. I started out with Scotchbrite pads and graduated to Clover Valve Lapping Compound liberally applied to the Scotchbrite pads. Takes quite a bit of elbow grease but the results were worth it. May be something for you to look into.

I have an older CVA that was a police auction gun. No telling how long it sat in an evidence locker with the bore slowly rusting. It was pretty bad when I got it and I figured worst case, I'll have Bobby reline it. I did the Scotch Brite thing and a pass with some valve grinding compound followed by a thorough cleanup. I call it my sewerpipe on a stick. It's an ugly duckling for sure, but it's a great example of how a bore can be salvaged to useful status. It's now one of my round ball teaching guns. And here's how it shoots with my custom minie for 50cal.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I have a .58 cal Zouave musket and once I fired it 60 times with mine balls and some crisco in the cavity. never swabbed it and the cleanup was real easy. same with C&B revolvers. shot them so much got tired of loading them never fouled and they were 1858 Remmys and I did not know about lubing the cylinder pin. never jammed up and cleanup was so easy. many people badmouth crisco but for me nothing could be better or cheaper

 

[Stykbow]

I think there’s a chance any of the guesses above could be the problem, but without actually loading and shooting the rifle ourselves they are just guesses. It’s obvious something ain’t right. I’m shooting 80 grains of the much hated Pyrodex RS and using Bore Butter lube on my patches. Loading hasn’t become an issue yet. I’m not shooting 50 times in a row, but I have shot 20 or 25 in row with no issues. I sincerely hope you get this worked out. I know it would drive me nuts.

 

[deermanok]

3f Swiss.

 

[stikshooter]

I've been shooting this rife for several years, it's currently my only bp rifle. I have a couple of questions about what I view as excessive fouling. First my current target load is 60 gr Goex 2f, .015 patch with mink oil and a .495 ball. I can get a couple of shots off before cleaning but it shoots best cleaning between each shot; I definitely clean between shots during a match. I see some of the guys at matches that shoot all day without cleaning between shots.

This fall I was going to take it hunting and was working up loads as large as 90 gr of 2f. It was too much for the rifle, the amount of residual fouling after a shot at 80-90 gr was amazing, it just wouldn't work. So, now I'm considering having the barrel rifling refreshed by Mr. Hoyt for deeper groves. Is there something I've missed here? I've tried multiple patches and lubes but the mink oil patching seems to be the best.

Yes you did miss , you need a heavier patch after polishing bore and smoothing crown . You fill find 80-90 grains work if you get the right patch . Lee Shaver details exactly how even new barrels benefit from his bore polishing ,if needed PM me and I will explain it.. I have a bunch of barrels and they all shoot better ,and I never had a problem with a renegade I assume 1-48 twist shooting round ball /Ed

 

[JamesT]

Have you tried a .490 ball??

 

[ord sgt]

FFg burns at a slower rate than FFFg. The slower burn leads to more fouling. I, like others, use FFFg almost exclusively. .45, .50, .58, .44 revolver, .45 single shot pistols. These I can fire many times without cleaning or wiping, depending on the humidity. FFg is used in my .69 calibre smoothbore.