Excessive Fouling in my Cabela's .50 Hawken 1:48 twist

[Togo]

I've been shooting this rife for several years, it's currently my only bp rifle. I have a couple of questions about what I view as excessive fouling. First my current target load is 60 gr Goex 2f, .015 patch with mink oil and a .495 ball. I can get a couple of shots off before cleaning but it shoots best cleaning between each shot; I definitely clean between shots during a match. I see some of the guys at matches that shoot all day without cleaning between shots.

This fall I was going to take it hunting and was working up loads as large as 90 gr of 2f. It was too much for the rifle, the amount of residual fouling after a shot at 80-90 gr was amazing, it just wouldn't work. So, now I'm considering having the barrel rifling refreshed by Mr. Hoyt for deeper groves. Is there something I've missed here? I've tried multiple patches and lubes but the mink oil patching seems to be the best.

My sweet spot when shooting matches with my TC Hawken is .490 balls with dry .015 patch with a few drops of 50/50 simple green and 30 grains of 2F or 3F Hogdon Triple 7. I can shoot pretty much most of a match without a spit patch. I only use black powder with my flintlocks.

 

[Historian]

Get rid of the FFg and go to the FFFg. I use it in everything from my .45 Hawken and all 3 of my 20 gauges. You will not look back. Good shooting.

 

[dave951]

FFg burns at a slower rate than FFFg. The slower burn leads to more fouling. I, like others, use FFFg almost exclusively. .45, .50, .58, .44 revolver, .45 single shot pistols. These I can fire many times without cleaning or wiping, depending on the humidity. FFg is used in my .69 calibre smoothbore.

Uhmmm, actually not exactly. The size of the granules of powder expose a certain surface area to ignition. 2f exposes less than 3f. The actual powder itself burns at a constant rate. What changes is the surface area hence the amount of powder that is burning at the time. Think of it this way, a 1ft cube filled with tennis balls and a 1ft cube filled with BBs. The surface area of the total amount of tennis balls is going to be less than the surface area of the total amount of BBs.

But back to the question, I shoot 3f in everything including my 69cal Macon smoothbore.

 

[deerstalkert]

Uhmmm, actually not exactly. The size of the granules of powder expose a certain surface area to ignition. 2f exposes less than 3f. The actual powder itself burns at a constant rate. What changes is the surface area hence the amount of powder that is burning at the time. Think of it this way, a 1ft cube filled with tennis balls and a 1ft cube filled with BBs. The surface area of the total amount of tennis balls is going to be less than the surface area of the total amount of BBs.

But back to the question, I shoot 3f in everything including my 69cal Macon smoothbore.

what you trying to do?? confuse folks with facts?

 

[Jimi The Weed]

I have a .58 cal Zouave musket and once I fired it 60 times with mine balls and some crisco in the cavity. never swabbed it and the cleanup was real easy. same with C&B revolvers. shot them so much got tired of loading them never fouled and they were 1858 Remmys and I did not know about lubing the cylinder pin. never jammed up and cleanup was so easy. many people badmouth crisco but for me nothing could be better or cheaper

Crisco is great, works for so many things.

 

[Crane Senior]

There are many ways to polish and smooth up a bore and make it easier to load. Here is a @duelist1954 video showing the process he used on a difficult to load GPR.



I have used a similar method with Scotch-Brite for some time, but Mike explains his very well. I started doing it after speaking to Don Getz (Getz Barrel) years ago before he passed, and he recommended using the green (600 grit) Scotch-Brite for smoothing up barrels that were cutting patches and difficult to load. Said it wouldn’t hurt the barrel.

 

[Crane Senior]

There are many ways to polish and smooth up a bore and make it easier to load. Here is a @duelist1954 video showing the process he used on a difficult to load GPR.



I have used a similar method with Scotch-Brite for some time, but Mike explains his very well. I started doing it after speaking to Don Getz (Getz Barrel) years ago before he passed, and he recommended using the green (600 grit) Scotch-Brite for smoothing up barrels that were cutting patches and difficult to load. Said it wouldn’t hurt the barrel.

Yes you did miss , you need a heavier patch after polishing bore and smoothing crown . You fill find 80-90 grains work if you get the right patch . Lee Shaver details exactly how even new barrels benefit from his bore polishing ,if needed PM me and I will explain it.. I have a bunch of barrels and they all shoot better ,and I never had a problem with a renegade I assume 1-48 twist shooting round ball /Ed

Thanks, I may give Lee a call and check that out. Also, I will probably hit the barrel again with a purple pad and see what that does.

 

[Crane Senior]

There are many ways to polish and smooth up a bore and make it easier to load. Here is a @duelist1954 video showing the process he used on a difficult to load GPR.



I have used a similar method with Scotch-Brite for some time, but Mike explains his very well. I started doing it after speaking to Don Getz (Getz Barrel) years ago before he passed, and he recommended using the green (600 grit) Scotch-Brite for smoothing up barrels that were cutting patches and difficult to load. Said it wouldn’t hurt the barrel.

Thank you

 

[Crane Senior]

Yes you did miss , you need a heavier patch after polishing bore and smoothing crown . You fill find 80-90 grains work if you get the right patch . Lee Shaver details exactly how even new barrels benefit from his bore polishing ,if needed PM me and I will explain it.. I have a bunch of barrels and they all shoot better ,and I never had a problem with a renegade I assume 1-48 twist shooting round ball /Ed

I was looking back at my notes, I’ve used a lot of different patch sizes and different lubs. There’s one I haven’t tried but will and it’s a semi-dry patch. I have a suspicion that mink oil may be an issue but I can’t figure out why?

 

[Crane Senior]

Have you tried a .490 ball??

Yep sure have. I was using a .018 patch with the .490 ball, but switched to a .495 ball when you couldn’t find .490 last year.

 

[Crane Senior]

FFg burns at a slower rate than FFFg. The slower burn leads to more fouling. I, like others, use FFFg almost exclusively. .45, .50, .58, .44 revolver, .45 single shot pistols. These I can fire many times without cleaning or wiping, depending on the humidity. FFg is used in my .69 calibre smoothbore.

Thanks I may give that a try.

 

[Crane Senior]

3f Swiss.

When I can find it.

 

[Crane Senior]

The video above is helpful. It was suggested to me and I watched it this past Fall after purchasing an older GPR that the bore needed addressed. I started out with Scotchbrite pads and graduated to Clover Valve Lapping Compound liberally applied to the Scotchbrite pads. Takes quite a bit of elbow grease but the results were worth it. May be something for you to look into.

Yep I watched that over a year ago, it’s really interesting. I did lapp the barrel with Scotchbrite and it did make a bit of a difference. I’ll probably do it again.

 

[deermanok]

When I can find it.

Travelers Antique and Trading Co.
Claude, Texas.
They have or had in stock. Give them a call.

 

[moose23]

I bought my first muzzleloader 23 years ago, a Lyman Great Plains Rifle .54 caliber. I was having the same problem you’re having. I asked the people I bought it from what to do. They said “lower your load by 15-20 grains and switch from FF to FFF” I took their advice and have been doing it ever since. Very little fouling in the barrel

 

[Steve Martin]

You 2Fg folks out there really need to switch to 3Fg, if you do you will never go back.

 

[45man]

Too much fouling is a lube failure. Lube must keep fouling soft all the way to the muzzle so it is pushed down at the next loading. Shooting matches I have shot over 200 shots without wiping. Now and then one would get tight so adding more lube to the next patch cleared it up.

 

[Crane Senior]

I bought my first muzzleloader 23 years ago, a Lyman Great Plains Rifle .54 caliber. I was having the same problem you’re having. I asked the people I bought it from what to do. They said “lower your load by 15-20 grains and switch from FF to FFF” I took their advice and have been doing it ever since. Very little fouling in the barrel

Too much fouling is a lube failure. Lube must keep fouling soft all the way to the muzzle so it is pushed down at the next loading. Shooting matches I have shot over 200 shots without wiping. Now and then one would get tight so adding more lube to the next patch cleared it up.

interesting thank you.

 

[Des52]

Have you tried a .490 ball??

Bingo!

 

[brushblind]

I own a couple of the Invest Arms Hawkins (Cabelas) and they much prefer 3f BP or Triple 7 and I always need to wipe between shots, .490 ball .010 patches lubed with natural lube. I have a Browning M R that I had Mr. Hoyt reline with a .50 round bottom slow twist for round ball and I can shoot many times (20 or so) using 2f BP before fowling gets bad enough that I need to wipe for easier loading. Accuracy is M.O.Deer @ 40 yds./ rested, 2 inches, open sights wiped or not, doesn't matter. I much prefer the round bottom rifling for patched ball shooting.