Octagon barrel finish

[Aussiegoldsmith]

Looking for input. Just started my second Kibler Colonial rifle. Wanted to keep the barrel in the white. What is the correct grit or file finish that’s period correct.

 

[Artificer]

Looking for input. Just started my second Kibler Colonial rifle. Wanted to keep the barrel in the white. What is the correct grit or file finish that’s period correct.

Hopefully Dave Person or Rich Pierce will see this and expound further, but from my studies of 18th century gunsmithing tools, I believe the final barrel finish was from draw filing with "fine" files and nothing like what we get from using modern Emery Cloth. They could and did make some pretty fine cut files in the period when they wanted, so the surfaces could have been pretty smooth.

It seems they did use Emery Powder with oil on rags and rubbing sticks to polish the outer surfaces of Lock Parts before case hardening, but not on the barrels as far as I know. OH, almost forgot, since most locks were made in Europe - the polishing on them was done when made before case hardening in Europe, though I suppose the Gunsmith could have polished them further with Emery had he wished.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

but from my studies of 18th century gunsmithing tools, I believe the final barrel finish was from draw filing with "fine" files and nothing like what we get from using modern Emery Cloth

And let's not forget that the barrel metal was different enough from what we use today, that you probably aren't going to get nearly the same finish. Even though the machinists on the forum will call our barrel steel "soft"..., it's harder and better steel than what they used.

FWIW...I removed any machining marks on both of my semi-custom barrels with some emory cloth and oil. Then I degreased the metal, and stained it dark with mustard. Actually it's a vinegar stain held in place by the mustard, and it's non-toxic. Then I used some brick dust and oil to polish most of the dark stain back, but left some patina, to appear that over time I'd been handling the rust, but not really polishing the barrel as a soldier would have done to his musket. It's sort of a splotchy, dull gray.

LD

 

[dave_person]

Looking for input. Just started my second Kibler Colonial rifle. Wanted to keep the barrel in the white. What is the correct grit or file finish that’s period correct.

Hi AG,
The original rifle barrels I've examined are usually so browned with age and rust it is hard to judge what they looked like new from the shop. It is clear that only the top 5 flats were treated with anything other than a hammer and coarse file. Most appear to have been file smoothed but you don't often see file marks, other than a few random deep file scratches. They obviously, polished the upper flats beyond filing. Stones and oil and perhaps emory powders were used. However, they were not brought to a real polish, just enough to remove the file and vice marks. The few original 18th century rifles that survive in almost new condition have barrels left in the white. There are a few that may show some sort of charcoal bluing but that likely was rare. I typically draw file and then sand my barrels smooth with up to 220 grit. Then I degrease them, apply an instant cold bluing, and wash with hot water to stop any further action of the bluing. Then I vigorously rub the barrel with a maroon Scotch Bright abrasive pad (it is a synthetic steel wool) until most of the bluing is rubbed off. This gives a nice tarnish to the barrel. It looks a bit artificial at first but after a couple of outings shooting the gun, it takes on a very plausible "used" patina. Below are photos showing the effect.

dave

 

[dave_person]

And let's not forget that the barrel metal was different enough from what we use today, that you probably aren't going to get nearly the same finish. Even though the machinists on the forum will call our barrel steel "soft"..., it's harder and better steel than what they used.

FWIW...I removed any machining marks on both of my semi-custom barrels with some emory cloth and oil. Then I degreased the metal, and stained it dark with mustard. Actually it's a vinegar stain held in place by the mustard, and it's non-toxic. Then I used some brick dust and oil to polish most of the dark stain back, but left some patina, to appear that over time I'd been handling the rust, but not really polishing the barrel as a soldier would have done to his musket. It's sort of a splotchy, dull gray.

LD

Hi LD,
I had the pleasure of using a wrought iron butt plate on Tony's late flint English rifle. It was from an original fowler from the early 19th century. In the course of cleaning it up, polishing, and engraving, I really came to like iron. It was a dream compared to most of the cast steel junk we are forced to use. When highly polished, the bright silvery gray color seems so deep in the metal compared to polished mild cast steel. When charcoal blued, the color was so deep and rich.

I bought an English fowler butt plate made from forged wrought iron by Ian Pratt. I cannot wait to use it.

dave

 

[rich pierce]

As Dave says we don’t get many looks at original finishes. There were a handful of Revolutionary War rifles that got captured and taken to England. Some are in the 2nd Moravian Gunmakers book. Finely draw-filed on the top 5 flats is my impression of those guns which are in remarkable shape. I like the look of fire bluing but will restrict that to imported trade guns that were specified as with blued barrels, such as Sir William Johnson’s records of orders for guns to give to First Americans.

 

[tenngun]

This was draw filed, sanded with 150 and 220, then navel jelly, then 4-0 steel wool, greens and oil.

 

[hanshi]

I used to own a fine Virginia rifle, it ran away from home. The metal wasn't bright metal but was between bright and "dulled" metal. It looked good, very good in fact. It also acquired "patina" and bits of rust here and there. This caused it to look better and better as time passed.

 

[Artificer]

Hi AG,
The original rifle barrels I've examined are usually so browned with age and rust it is hard to judge what they looked like new from the shop. It is clear that only the top 5 flats were treated with anything other than a hammer and coarse file. Most appear to have been file smoothed but you don't often see file marks, other than a few random deep file scratches. They obviously, polished the upper flats beyond filing. Stones and oil and perhaps emory powders were used. However, they were not brought to a real polish, just enough to remove the file and vice marks. The few original 18th century rifles that survive in almost new condition have barrels left in the white. There are a few that may show some sort of charcoal bluing but that likely was rare. I typically draw file and then sand my barrels smooth with up to 220 grit. Then I degrease them, apply an instant cold bluing, and wash with hot water to stop any further action of the bluing. Then I vigorously rub the barrel with a maroon Scotch Bright abrasive pad (it is a synthetic steel wool) until most of the bluing is rubbed off. This gives a nice tarnish to the barrel. It looks a bit artificial at first but after a couple of outings shooting the gun, it takes on a very plausible "used" patina.

dave

Dave,

Great point about them using stones to abrade the barrels, have to admit I forgot that. OH, one other thing some did was scrape the barrels smooth after filing with steel scrapers, since Iron will scrape rather easily, unlike many modern steels.

LOVE that Iron Buttplate you posted and was especially intrigued when you mentioned how it would shine like silver.

Gus

 

[Col. Batguano]

Dave,
I thought you had previously said that for your grayed finishes, you polished the bare metal down much further, like to 1200 grit or so. Reason being is that with finer and finer scratches, there is less roughness for rust to get going, as, the graying provides little if any rust protection.

 

[dave_person]

Dave,
I thought you had previously said that for your grayed finishes, you polished the bare metal down much further, like to 1200 grit or so. Reason being is that with finer and finer scratches, there is less roughness for rust to get going, as, the graying provides little if any rust protection.

Hi David,
Not for barrels unless I am going to brown or charcoal blue it with the high polish found on high-end British guns. I just give most barrels a polish with 220, maybe 320, and then the cold blue tarnish treatment. On other steel parts I bring them to a high polish to resist rust but I also case harden some, which helps resist rust.

dave

 

[tenngun]

On the middlesex village arms website he has an original Kirkland officers fusil. It looks like a lightlymade Bess with a decretive side plate. The barrel is brown. When the barrel was pulled it was found to be blues underneath. MSV wanted to offer the gun blues, but decided to go in the white.
Now folks have had some trouble with MSV, but that has nothing to do with what they found on an original gun.
I do think blueing, acid or fire, is underrepresented on our guns today.
That said blue on an eighteenth or early nineteenth century gun just looks ‘wrong’ to me.

 

[dave_person]

On the middlesex village arms website he has an original Kirkland officers fusil. It looks like a lightlymade Bess with a decretive side plate. The barrel is brown. When the barrel was pulled it was found to be blues underneath. MSV wanted to offer the gun blues, but decided to go in the white.
Now folks have had some trouble with MSV, but that has nothing to do with what they found on an original gun.
I do think blueing, acid or fire, is underrepresented on our guns today.
That said blue on an eighteenth or early nineteenth century gun just looks ‘wrong’ to me.

Hi,
First, I would want to see that gun for myself and make my own determination about what it is and when it was made. Ketland (not Kirkland) made many military and para-military (meaning private ownership) guns during its business life, which extended well into the 19th century when browning and rust bluing were common.
Second, bluing or browning on an English gun during the late 18th and 19th centuries is not remarkable. However, the gun is English, not American. I challenge you to find one piece of evidence in written documentation that has survived that indicates barrels on American long rifles were rust browned. There is no mention of the process, tools, or materials in the inventories of American long rifle makers before the 19th century unlike the inventories of British makers during the same period. Moreover, the browning process for barrels adopted by the British was largely meant to highlight the twist and stub twist barrels whose patterns would be lost if not colored. Plain iron barrels used on livery and military guns were simply left white until almost the 19th century.

dave

 

[David Coulter]

Hi folks, As far as the steel goes, I’m mostly down to the barrel and a couple screws. I love the look of Dave Person’s simple blue. My question is this. I’ve already browned the butt plate, trigger guard, and ram rod guides. I heated the lock parts blue in the grill. If I do a different treatment to the barrel will that look ok or just a mishmash? Thanks, dc

 

[Grenadier1758]

The regulation requirements for an 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle call for the barrel to be browned and the lock blued and the screws and bolts blued. While there is a bit of mixed metal finish, I would go for the browned barrel and blued lock. The lock can have a different finish than the barrel.

 

[EC121]

I do about what Dave does. Draw file, a little sanding, and cold blue. A deeply cold browned barrel on a new rifle just doesn't look right. Kind of like some of the overdone Cloroxed barrels.

 

[waksupi]

Hi folks, As far as the steel goes, I’m mostly down to the barrel and a couple screws. I love the look of Dave Person’s simple blue. My question is this. I’ve already browned the butt plate, trigger guard, and ram rod guides. I heated the lock parts blue in the grill. If I do a different treatment to the barrel will that look ok or just a mishmash? Thanks, dc

Boil the browned parts, they will change color to blue. That is the basis of rust bluing.