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are we failing?

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Couple days ago a friend came over to use my range to sight in his new 22 rifle. since the range was going hot, I dragged out my .40 cap gun.
I was surprized at how interested my friend was in my ML. Now he had worked in the same sport shop as I did and should have known a lot of this.
By the end of the day I had showed him how to load it, shoot it and clean it. He left my house wanting a ML, now time will tell if his wife will give him the money to buy it. I was really surprized at his interest in my traditional ML. He thought it was a lot harder to load and shoot than what he saw me doing. His eyes openned up when he saw the tiny .40 balls stack on top of each other. A little smoke, some nosie, but no recoil, but fun to shoot.
 
Zimmer's point is also a reflection on this modern day/time period. When a lot of us grew up we had no computers, cell phones, pda's, internet etc.
We had friends, we played outside, books, sports, Boy/Girl Scouts, summer camp, imagination etc.

The 'hiding from society' generation of 'texting', instant messaging, video games, facebook and internet has taken away the appreciation of the world we have around us. In another post, someone mentioned the call of the Fall season and it's surrounding beauty.
When has this new generation last looked up at night? Seen the woods at full Fall or tramped thru the forest after a snowfall? Listened to the animals speak or the wind dance with the trees?

Just like the shooting/hunting items of today where you 'NEED' this or 'NEED' that to successfully hunt or shoot. It is all about the 'gimmick' to do well. Not one's own skill and patience. Hopefully this generation and those coming will learn and grow up to see that a scope will not 'make' you a better hunter/shooter/better person. :surrender:

BUT, We few, so happy muzzleloading few, shall keep the traditions and rites of passage alive and well. :patriot:

MY 2p worth.... :hatsoff:

Cheers, DonK
 
Americans have an "oooh shiny" mentality. It's not just the hunters (imho). How many folks are constantly "upgrading" their cell phones, laptops, e-readers..., and how many really can use all of the features on them? Hell, some cars park themselves, stop automatically, and entertain the kids in the back seat! :shake:

The shooting and hunting industry is very similar to the golfing industry. The more gadgets, the better. Scent block, dozens of copywritten cammo patterns, insulation thinsulation master{censored}ation, heck they even have vanilla gum so your bad breath doesn't spook the deer...,

So is it any wonder old tech isn't desired? :hmm:

As for hunting license sales being "down" don't read into that too much unless you are looking at one or two decades of data. First, check and see how many of the licenses were out-of-state sales (much more expensive). Second, even when in-state licenses are cheap, remember that lots of our fellow hunters are working more hours to make ends meet. What we do is recreation for the vast majority, and such activities suffer in economic times such as we have now.

We haven't "failed" as long as we make shooting a traditional muzzleloader an available option, and support all of the folks in the shooting and hunting sports.

Consider a parallel with vintage automobiles. One day I may have a '67 'vette or a '57 Chevy, or both. Until then I drive what I can, and the guys who maintain such vehicles and bring them to car shows know that most of the folks at the show don't have a vintage ride, will never get one, but they are nice enough to show folks like me their car. We need to do the same thing with our traditional muzzleloaders. To date, I have "converted" 5 persons to our pastime, in one form or another..., that's a 500% increase over myself, alone. If all you ever do is bring two folks to the pastime, then we have doubled our numbers. Even if the folks seldom use their BP guns, or stop using them, they will remember the fun they had and will support other folks having the same fun. Just remember to convince the two you mentor to also mentor two, and so on, and so on... :thumbsup:

LD
 
I have no difficulty seeing why it is hard to propagate the use of flintlocks. I say flintlocks because they are more difficult to promote than cap locks. As it pertains to my area, there is no place to see a flintlock. None of the local gun shops have one. Neither does Bass Pro, there are two relatively close by. Cabela's does have one on the rack, a Blue Ridge. No local store has any supplies like black powder or flints.
When you get someone interested which is pretty easy to do, then you start explaining what you have to go through to get black powder. Yeah, you gotta order on-line and buy a bunch and pay haze mat fees and be home to receive your order and sign for it. You see a pattern here? OK you get them over those hurdles and advise them to join a muzzle loading form for tips. They come here and are browbeat by some because they bought a cheap factory gun instead of buying a multi-thousand dollar custom.
I let or offer to let my shootin buddies shoot them any time they want. I do Boy Scout presentations. But the issues associated with flintlocks make a up hill climb.
 
I knew flinters were rarer outside of PA,didn't realize it was that bad. for about forty years, We have had a dedicated season for flinters only. As a result there are dozens of places to buy the guns and the powder. (having Dixon's an hour drive away helps too.)
My farm is posted. Only archers and those hunting with black powder arms are given permission to hunt on it.
 
We normally try to "convert" deer hunters because a lot of us hunt deer. Muzzle loading is a gadget oriented endeavor and it might be more fruitful to go after gadget oriented people. Those who hunt ducks and have a boat, decoys, duck calls, dogs, etc. OR..fly fisherman with their fly tying or what not. These people see a muzzle loader with all the accoutrements and they take to it like a duck to water. A lot of deer hunters just want to grab a 30-30 and run off to the woods. Just an idea I have....
 
This is a two edged sword. Some people are truly interested in the B/P firearms. Those are the ones that I try to help by showing them my gear, answer all questions that I'm able to, and even allow them to shoot my rifles. I like to think that I, in some way, may have helped in getting someone started. There is a few people that have become friends and we do shoot together occasionally.

Others I have come into contact with only wanted to educate me in the wrongness of my ways. Those I just smile at. It would be like trying to teaching a pig how to sing. It would be a waste of my time and would only annoy the pig.

Vern
 
Very few MLs are seen at my range, as well. I attract a lot of attention whenever I shoot. Those who take up my offer to shoot invariably remark that the gun fires "instantaneously" rather than the "poof" - "bang" they'd expected. The best way to convince someone of the efficiency of a flint/percussion, IMHO, is to have them examine a deer killed with a prb.
 
Not many B/P shooters at the range where I shoot either. Most often it's the youngsters that start the conversations regarding my rifles with dad standing in the background but after a while dad asks a few questions also. As I already suspected, soon the youngster is itching to fire the rifle and not long after that dad is sighting down it's barrel. I'm not saying that they all end up as converts, but at least I'm no longer looked upon by them as a evolutionary throw back.

Vern
 
Seeing I'm not a MLer "missionary", I don't proselytize asre my hobby, or for that matter, not religion, politics nor philosophy. Whether one prefers to shoot a flintlock, caplock, inline, CF or whatever, is fine by me. Some prefer to "classify" people and their guns into higher or lower categories...flintlocks are good and percs are not quite so good and only "no goods" buy inlines. Most people who shoot and hunt are good people irregardless of the firearms they use and I gladly accept that as fact.....Fred
 
hanshi said:
Actually, I never met a gun I didn't like.

Glocks. Don't like Glocks. Ugly, with the darn stupidest idea for a safety I ever saw. (IMHO :grin: ) But that's a whole different ballgame, so I won't go there on this forum! :haha:

I CAN say I never met a traditional muzzleloader I didn't like. :thumbsup:
 
Two of my older sons have hunted with nothing but muzzleloaders. Boy, will they be surprised if they ever hunt with something more modern. They are already asking why we hunt with the "old stuff". I'm afraid that they are going to defect at some point. Hopefully, if they do, they will come back to the fold. My oldest son is in the military and has seen the best our nation can put in a soldier's hands. I still have 2 younger sons that will be old enough someday to hunt. They will be started on muzzleloaders, also. But I'm done populating the earth with future ml fans. Plumb wore out.
 
Gentlemen,

I think that the general populace's lack of interest is multipartate. To overcome the problem, we need to understand the root causes of the lack of interest, and what we can do about it.

The first part of the problem is that we are a part of what has been called a silent majority. Gun owners have by and large ceded the moral high ground to the antis. How often do most gun owners vocally and monetarily support gun ownership and use?

The second part of the problem is that we are a small group within the gun owners. The common perception is that those that shoot muzzies are cranky old men in buckskins. The media has not helped with this, see Jeremiah Jones.

The third part of the problem is cost. It is more expensive to get into muzzies than it is for modern guns. You can buy a MN 91/30 for less than $150, and a Savage Mark II for less than $250. How much does a basic caplock cost? (and then add in the cost of accessories)

The forth part of the problem is relative abilities of muzzies v. centerfire rifles. A suppository gun has a much longer effective range, has a flatter trajectory, and can usually get a second shoot off much faster than can a muzzie.

The fifth part of the problem is that of difficulty. The care a feeding of a muzzie is not a simple process. Just take loading a muzzie; it requires several accessories, and is not a quick process, nor one that reacts well to anything less than precision and consistency.

We are a breed of specialists, men and women who enjoy a sport that requires fiddly bits, patience, and a willingness to limit ourselves. By and large, we are not a young group, either for reasons of time or money. And while we try our best not to be insular, we speak in terms that the layman has to work to understand, rendering ourselves that much harder to access. Much as fly fishers are the technical specialists of the fishing world, we are the specialists of the shooting world, with all of the challenges that come with that position.

So what can we do about it? First, we kill all the lawyers... (My apologies to the good guys, I just couldn't resist :grin: ) Really, we are already doing most of what can be done; Many of our ranks have fairly active outreach policies such as show a friend, show a youngster at the range, do demonstrations where possible. We have at least a few members who are active in the politics of gun support, and pretty much all of us have sent the retailers a notice of our interests by purchasing muzzleloading supplies and materiel.

We cannot force the gun companies to decrease the prices of entry level guns, I do not think that we can force the entertainment industry to give more airtime to muzzleloaders, nor are we likely to be able to give guns in general a more positive image. However, what we can do is to make inroads into the youth wherever possible. Take your children and grandchildren shooting. Work with social media to get the images of us smiling and enjoying our sport out in public, much as Claude has done. Work with youth groups to introduce muzzies. Petition the boy scouts to introduce a muzzleoading merit badge, instead of folding the topic into the rifle merit badge.

In short, we have chosen a technical sport, one that can be hard to get into, and can be hard to get information and materials for. But we have some spectacular opportunities; the internet allows outsiders to gather the information and materials they need, even if they don't know anyone who shoots. Social media gives us a new forum in which to spread our ideas. Our age gives us authority that can be used to build trust and interest in the sport. Our sport has a rich history, so let us use that to reach out to those that want to connect with history.

Great progress has been made since the '50s, when our sport was practically forgotten, and yet look at us now. Let us work together, using whatever means possible to make the coming decades that much better for our chosen sport.

Regards,
Loki
 
Loki, while I cannot disagree with the points you have stated, I believe you missed the central issue. I know from first hand involvement schools do not instill a sense of history into our children. And they have not for quite a few years. Many adults of today simply have never even heard of the American Revolution. Why would they want to eumulate it, or the fur trade era? Today's world is one of convenience. Traditional muzzle loading is anything but convenient.
Maybe I shouldn't have even made the original post. It really reads more like a vent than a legitmate question. The editor of my local newspaper has nicknamed me "Cataylst". When I write a letter to the editor it generates a tidal wave of responses, both fer and again what I said.
Our country's loss of an appreciation of what created America is sad. I mourn that loss. Good for those of us who do our best to maintain that memory while enjoying our strange, frustrating and dirty avocation.
 
Loki said:
I think that the general populace's lack of interest is multipartate. To overcome the problem, we need to understand the root causes of the lack of interest, and what we can do about it.
The general publics lack of interest is not my concern. Many of us are not on a crusade, as some here seem to be. We are not evangelists, just because we participate in something.

There are many things I'm interested in, but I do not feel the need to convince others that they should also take an interest. It would be arrogant to assume that they should.

I like to canoe - should I try to convince everyone that they should buy a canoe? Am I "FAILING" if I cannot?

To the general public: Enjoy your activities and share them with like-minded people. Stop trying to make people see the world through your eyes.
 
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