are we failing?

[Rifleman1776]

I believe those of us who are deeply involved in traditional muzzle loading have a responsibility to help spread the word, so to speak. There are many shooters who simply do not understand the world of muzzle loading beyond the plastic packed inlines at Wal-Mart. The reality of that hit me recently when I took my truck to my regular repair shop. The owner is an avid modern gun shooter and we often talk guns and hunting. I had my flint fowler in the truck and showed it to him. A friend of his was also present. Friend is a shooter and hunter also. He asked questions about the fowler but it was apparent he simply did not understand what made it different than a rifle. He said he had a .45 TC rifle, not an inline. I tried to explain to him the fowler was not a rifle but the concept simply did not 'take'. On further discussion I found he also did not understand what rifling was or why it existed or why a rifle was called a rifle. As a former gun shop owner, I realize there is a lot of ignorance out there regarding guns of all types. We can't educate everyone. But as active ml'ers we can do our best to try to enlighten those we meet. The owner of the shop knew what I had and I'm hopeful he enlightens his friend.

 

[RC]

yer right...an I like most involved..if we see even a faint spark of interest fan the spark.....if ya can get them to shoot it......if ya can get them that far...you jus may have hooked another....we can only help the willing..others jus don't get it...yet! :wink:

 

[Vaino]

Why? I've been into the shooting, hunting and building of MLers for 35 yrs, but don't promote this interest. There's a reason that most people concerned w/ the gun sports are not interested in Mlers....they're not interested in our early historical arms or history, modern CFs do have an appeal, MLers require more cleaning and maintenace than CFs and most gunowners and hunters aren't smitten w/ the "romance" connected w/ the various MLers. I belong to a gun club that's mainly CF and all told, possibly out of 350 members, 10 of us shoot MLers w/ zero sanctioned matches. That's fine w/ me seeing my interest isn't dependent on numbers of like minded people to enjoy my interest. Trying to "persuade" others to at least try our sport is a worthwhile endeavor, but beyond that, it's the individual's choice and in most cases the "persuasion" doesn't work. You could say we who are enchanted w/ MLers are in a "bubble" and some in this "bubble" just can't understand how others don't join in on our overwhelming "love affair"....Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

they're not interested in our early historical arms or history,

Yes, you are right. I was probably more venting than asking. I used to do presentations in schools as a Rev. Rifleman but stopped. Schools no longer even teach about the American Revolution. Sad.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I have a friend who has owned a blackpowder firearm for several years now. He always asks me to take him to the range to show him how to shoot it. Somehow we never get the time, or make the time to meet up.

Whenever I am at the range, I always make my equipment available to those who might show an interest. There are usually a few people who wander over to ask questions and even shoot the muzzleloaders. I think its a good way to introduce curious people to the sport.

 

[ryoung14]

You could say we who are enchanted w/ MLers are in a "bubble" and some in this "bubble" just can't understand how others don't join in on our overwhelming "love affair"....Fred

You could also say we're members of a cult. And, if that's not true, you still can't blame people for thinking that as that's how we appear.

The rituals involved with loading, firing and caring for a muzzleloader are understandable once you've become acquainted with this breed of firearm. They're not understandable to most who never reach that point.

But, going beyond that, the emphasis on PC/HC mystifies even those who have shot BP many years. It's possible to shoot and enjoy muzzleloaders without being "smitten with romance". Most just want to enjoy their hobbies; not be obsessed with them, or make "statements", or join a cult.

 

[necchi]

I've mentored a half dozen or better from nothin into full blown fever ridden blackpowder nuts.
And still answer many questions about the sport/hobby from novice through experianced.
I don't think I've failed, but ya just can't get to everyone.

As far as this guy you spoke with,

he also did not understand what rifling was or why it existed or why a rifle was called a rifle.

Ya can't fix stupid.

And,

I realize there is a lot of ignorance out there

Yeah Man,, :shake:

 

[D Sanders]

And there are those that have it driven into their heads that if it doesn't have a bright shiny brass looking bullet, then it just isn't accurate or hard hitting enough to hunt with. :bull: (I get into this argument quite often!)

HH 60

 

As far as this guy you spoke with,

he also did not understand what rifling was or why it existed or why a rifle was called a rifle.

Ya can't fix stupid.

Not being educated about something does not make one "stupid".

I would guess that there are quite a few members here who can barely use their computer and actually know very little about them. That doesn't make them stupid - it just means they are uneducated. Some are actually proud that they are computer illiterate.

 

[necchi]

Ok, I'll give Larry the Cable Guy a call on that,,

Your right, there's dumb and there's stupid.
Dumb I can usually deal with.
I have lost all patience for stupid,

I'm sorry, "rifleing" is a concept I grasped in Firearms Saftey Class 43 years ago. Here in Minn you need that class before you can purchase a Hunting license when your of age.

I also feel that an adult, that can call himself a shooter and hunter, that doesn't know the idea/concept/or purpose of "rifling" when many "hunters" use shotguns and rilfes,,
, too be at best on the fringe of stupid.

 

[Stumpkiller]

That's 'Tater Salad's line (Ron White).


To no one in particular - there's also those as just seem to snipe and gripe and never seem to actually do or help. :yakyak:

Who's worse?

 

[tsafa]

The way I hook new shooters is I explain to them that for the money you will shoot a more powerful gun them most modern handguns. I tell then that modern handguns are designed mainly with self-defense in mind... while civil war revolvers were designed with offense in mind. Calvary often used them as their primary weapon. That is why they have bigger barrels.

At that point I usually have their interest. Then I tell them that my 1858 revolver will a 190 grain bullet and a full load of pyrodex has a about 400 ft-lbs of energy vs the 320 ft-lbs of the 9mm or the 360 ft-lbs of the .45 ACP.

At this point I have them hooked... but I follow up with the fact that the don't have to go through all the B.S. of going to an FFL dealer to buy. They can just buy on the internet and have it shipped to their house along with all the bullets, caps and powder. I tell them that they can get an 1851 confederate for $130 at cabelas mailed to their house. With ammo and powder they can get started for under $200.

I have gotten a number of guys to go home and order one the same day with this pitch. Perhaps I am selling Muzzleloading on the cheapside... but it gets people started.

 

[kbuck]

I see this as a piece of a broader argument. We all have the responsibility to encourage, foster, promulgate, educate, force, coerce, motivate, and convince non-hunters and shooters that guns in general are not evil, but can provide enjoyable and safe recreation. I know that in my state of Alabama, hunting license sales are down, and have been in this trend for some time now. If we fail, then the anti-hunters and anti-gunners will win. Yes, muzzleloaders are more fun than cf magnum rifles. I tell my hunter safety classes that inlines are for wimps and sissies. Flintlocks, and other traditional guns are the thing used by real men.
Maybe we need a producer to make a series of folks hunting with traditional guns and rifles. I bet the duck commanders would look kind of funny sporting fowlers.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I figure alot of hunters are like women driving automobiles. Like women who turn a key and step on the gas, caring little about spark, octane, spark advance, electronic ignition, choke, etc. Some hunters put a brass tampon up the breech and pull the trigger. Not knowing or caring about primers, head space, free bore, twist, etc. From the Neanderthal "Pull trigger big boom." hunters run a vast disparate group when it comes to what makes their guns tick. Much less understanding how to tweak them or what could improve them.

Manufacturers know this. How else could they get the outdoors public to buy all the variations as newer bigger and faster. They sell all kinds of fake powders and fancy $5.00 bullets, yet in-lines really aren't any better than a 19th century side lock with a bullet twist. I have a book on cartridges that lists approximately 600 different rifle and pistol cartridges for any and all purposes from killing mice to whales. There is really nothing new that can be done to develop a cartridge that hasn't already existed, yet the manufacturers keep churning them out. Duplicitous of the past yet the American shooting public gobbles it up hungrily. In-lines are merely retroengineered firearms. Modern actions adapted to century old technology. I have not seen any new cartridge in the past twenty years that wasn't a copy of an already existing one.

 

[necchi]

Well Said, :bow:

 

[hoochiepapa]

THere's one point I haven't heard yet. The hunters of today are brought up on the "big buck" mentality, and they have to have the latest gear to get that big buck. Instant gratification.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

:applause:

 

Why? I've been into the shooting, hunting and building of MLers for 35 yrs, but don't promote this interest. There's a reason that most people concerned w/ the gun sports are not interested in Mlers....they're not interested in our early historical arms or history, modern CFs do have an appeal, MLers require more cleaning and maintenace than CFs and most gunowners and hunters aren't smitten w/ the "romance" connected w/ the various MLers. I belong to a gun club that's mainly CF and all told, possibly out of 350 members, 10 of us shoot MLers w/ zero sanctioned matches. That's fine w/ me seeing my interest isn't dependent on numbers of like minded people to enjoy my interest. Trying to "persuade" others to at least try our sport is a worthwhile endeavor, but beyond that, it's the individual's choice and in most cases the "persuasion" doesn't work. You could say we who are enchanted w/ MLers are in a "bubble" and some in this "bubble" just can't understand how others don't join in on our overwhelming "love affair"....Fred

I agree completely. If someone seems interested, I share what I know with them. If they seem disinterested, I don't waste my breath. It's my hobby, past-time, sport, etc. If others don't have an interest, it has no bearing on what I do or how I feel. It's not a team sport - I don't need other "players" to make me feel validated.

There's nothing to "fail" at.

 

[Amikee]

'We are the champions, my friends. And we'll keep on fighting to the end..."
I figured I'll toss some positive notes here :grin:

 

[Geraldo]

Why? I've been into the shooting, hunting and building of MLers for 35 yrs, but don't promote this interest. There's a reason that most people concerned w/ the gun sports are not interested in Mlers....they're not interested in our early historical arms or history, modern CFs do have an appeal, MLers require more cleaning and maintenace than CFs and most gunowners and hunters aren't smitten w/ the "romance" connected w/ the various MLers. I belong to a gun club that's mainly CF and all told, possibly out of 350 members, 10 of us shoot MLers w/ zero sanctioned matches. That's fine w/ me seeing my interest isn't dependent on numbers of like minded people to enjoy my interest. Trying to "persuade" others to at least try our sport is a worthwhile endeavor, but beyond that, it's the individual's choice and in most cases the "persuasion" doesn't work. You could say we who are enchanted w/ MLers are in a "bubble" and some in this "bubble" just can't understand how others don't join in on our overwhelming "love affair"....Fred

I agree completely. If someone seems interested, I share what I know with them. If they seem disinterested, I don't waste my breath. It's my hobby, past-time, sport, etc. If others don't have an interest, it has no bearing on what I do or how I feel. It's not a team sport - I don't need other "players" to make me feel validated.

There's nothing to "fail" at.

I have a lot of people ask me questions at the range. They ask out of curiosity, not because they're burning with desire to get into muzzleloaders. I answer all politely, and I've helped one guy who is genuinely interested get real BP, flints, etc. But I'm not a recruiter or part of a press gang.

Whether centerfire or ML, I understand that I'm out on the ragged edge of shooting sports and that very few people will have any real interest in shooting what I shoot. I can't make someone want to shoot BP or form brass for .357 Herrett, so I agree, there is nothing to fail at.