Zonie's demo tape sez never use FFFg in a rifle?

[Ron_T.]

I noticed Zonie has a demo video post at the top of this Forum about muzzle loaders and smokeless powder.

Thinking this is a dangerous thing to do, I watched Zonie's safety post... and at the end of the video, the fella giving the demo sez, "Never use FFFFg or FFFg in a muzzle-loading rifle, only use FFg powder." or words to that effect.

I'm thinking he must have meant "Never use FFFg or FFFFg in an in-line muzzle-loading rifle", but that isn't what he said.

Since FFFg is commonly use as the propellant powder in a wide variety of different calibers in traditional muzzle-loaders and FFFFg is "the" powder to use in a flint-lock's frizzen pan, the statement near the end of that video could very easily and very likely be mis-leading to a "newbie" just coming into our black powder, muzzle-loading rifle sport... and especially mis-leading to anyone shooting a traditional muzzle-loading cap-lock or flint-lock rifle.

While I may be being a bit "over-cautious", perhaps it might be worth a second "look" by Zonie or Claude. N'est pas, mon ami? :hmm:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[54ball]

OK

You have to consider that that tape is for beginners. On a large caliber rifle 3fffg can possibly develop dangerous pressure levels if loaded as 2ffg. If a mistake is made such as a double charge with 3fffg, measured as a full 2ffg charge by volume x 2 by mistake, failure could result. So the 3fffg charge has to be reduced to be fired in large caliber rifle or shotgun. For newbie, instead of getting into all that.... It's simple to say.

Use 2ffg in a rifle.

As the shooter matures into the sport and gains experience he can choose to stray from that advice albeit informed.

 

[Patocazador]

It looks as if I've broken another law. :blah:

 

[galamb]

Rebel...

You probably don't keep both hands on the steering wheel while driving either.

 

[Zonie]

Thanks for catching that comment.

The man presenting the information and giving the talk does seem to have his mind focused on the modern muzzleloaders and loads using elongated bullets.

Even Lyman, in their book, "BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL 2nd Ed goes along with what he's saying when it shows loads for heavy slugs.
They don't show any data for elongated bullets (slugs or sabots) that use powder finer than 2Fg.

Even limiting the powder for projectiles of this type to 2Fg they still got breech pressures of over 17,000 psi pressure.

That said, for elongated bullets, I agree with his comment about using 3Fg and 4F powder.

I'll edit the topic to reflect my thoughts.

 

[Billnpatti]

In order to get a definitive answer for the recommendation to not use a grade of powder finer than 2f, you would have to contact the person who made the video. I have no idea where he is coming from with that advice. I'm not saying it is bad advice but it just seems overly cautious on the face of it. I have a few cans of Goex 2f in my locker and they have been there for a few years. I shoot rifles of calibers ranging from .36 to .54 and I prefer to use Goex 3f in all of them. It works fine and seems to be cleaner burning requiring less cleanup. I bought the Goex 2f for use in my .62 caliber smoothbore. It worked quite well there so I used 2f in my smoothbore and 3f in everything else including my pistols. But, that is just what I have found to work for me. Any questions about the recommendations made in the video in question should be directed to the person who made the video.

 

[Ron_T.]

Thank you, Zonie...

I shoot 3 different .50 caliber traditional rifles (a flintlock and 2 Hawkens) and I also use low charges (70 grains for deer hunting, 47 grains for target shooting) of FFFg and have done so for over 5 years with no problems whatsoever.

Regardless... our extremely knowledgeable Zonie is going to take care of the "clarification" of the comments made in the video which is the reason I originally posted my comments in this thread... i.e., to bring it to his or Claude's attention since I'm confident both of these gentlemen undoubtedly read most or all of the posts in these threads.

Even the Goex Load Chart shows FFFg as one of the powder charges safe to use in all calibers smaller than .50 caliber as well as indicating light loads of FFFg are safe in .50 caliber rifles using round, patched lead rifle balls, so the remarks made by the fella in the video obviously apply to modern in-line muzzle-loaders using heavy bullets rather than patched, round-balls.

"All's well that ends well.", as they say... :v


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.