Why do RBs have to be pure lead?

[pepperbelly]

I have read many threads about roundballs needing to be pure lead- no alloys or wheel weights.
Why? Isn't it the patch that goes into the grooves? The roundball is slightly less than the bore diameter of the lands. The ball doesn't lose shape and become oval, does it?
I am not trying to be difficult. I am trying to understand why a hard alloy, like wheel weights, is bad.
What happens when a roundball is cast from a hard alloy?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[zrifleman]

Hard lead balls will work---it just takes a bigger hammer!!

 

[bwhoffman]

patch doesnt engage the ball (imprint the ball) as easy, nor do they marrinto the lands as easy, hence the comment on a bigger hammer!
I have found that a tad thinner patch will get me by with the larger calibers, but just not happening in my .40.

Too tigh a fit, with sharp crisp lands cuts the patch for me.

 

[necchi]

"Why? Isn't it the patch that goes into the grooves?"

Yes, but the thickness of the patch is also present at the lands of the bore. It's there that the patch will impart to the ball, or actually squeeze the lands into the soft lead ball and help it grip and spin proper.
A harder ball won't receive this imprint as well and can skip the rifling some esp under heavy charges.
It's not that hard lead won't work,,just that soft lead works better.

 

[badgreek]

The problem that i have had with casting roundballs with a hard alloy is inconsistant weight of the roundballs. I have a .50 cal and the weight of the balls vary quite a bit usually on the light side.When i cast mine out of as pure of lead as i can get, I try to keep them as close to 177 grains as possible. Usually not more then 8/10th of a grain + or minus.

 

[roundball]

I have read many threads about roundballs needing to be pure lead- no alloys or wheel weights.
Why? Isn't it the patch that goes into the grooves? The roundball is slightly less than the bore diameter of the lands. The ball doesn't lose shape and become oval, does it?
I am not trying to be difficult. I am trying to understand why a hard alloy, like wheel weights, is bad.
What happens when a roundball is cast from a hard alloy?

Thanks,
Jim

They don't have to be pure lead.
My personal choice for deer hunting for example would be pure soft lead to get the benefit of any possible expansion...but even that can be discussed with the notion that a 1/2" hole through the heart is good enough anyway.

I've shot a lot of water jugs experimenting with various loads and calibers...and I always have to use a short starter with my tight fitting Hornady or Speer 100% lead PRB combos...but have never recoved a ball from testing (or a deer) that has ever had any patch weave or land marks on it.

If something like wheel weights are easily available to you cheap, I'd cast them in a heart beat to use them at the range...might need a slightly different ball size/patch combo for ideal results, dunno.

 

[Jason Lewis]

i agree with roundball on this one. i have shot both pure lead, and 40-1 and can tell no differance on the target. for hunting purposes you will have better expansion with pure lead, however, even 20-1 alloy is still relativly soft stuff.

 

[necchi]

Never seen one with fabric imprinted lands?? Well here's one to gander,

Here's the same one with different lighting,,hard to see but there are 3 lands makrs here,

Thats a .440 that I dry balled and they blew out with CO2, I guess I saved it all these years cause it was the first time I ever saw a CO2 blow out thing, I always shot'm out and never found one before

 

[roundball]

Never have...still haven't...what I do know without question is this full set of specifications and hands on test results:
I use .010" undersize Hornady & Speer balls with .018" pillow ticking in industry standard bore dimensions as follows:

.390" in a .400" bore"
.440" in a .450" bore;
.490" in a .500" bore;
.530" in a .540" bore;
.570" in a .580" bore;

I've recovered all of them from gallon jugs of water lined up in a row, and recovered a .440" from a deer that went through a rib, through the heart, and was bulging the hide on the far side, and never a mark on a single one of them.


:v

 

[BrownBear]

Call me lazy, but I don't like to pound on a short starter to get a ball going down a bore. My choice of diameters and patches pretty much reflects roundball's, and I haven't ever seen any weave on recovered balls. It just could be the fact that we're not seating them tight enough for that to happen. It's always made me wonder if the "engraving" happens while the ball is being seated rather than after it has been fired. Has anyone ever used a CO2 discharger to check after seating a ball? Might answer a lot of questions.

But the reason I say all that, I find that balls cast from wheelweights are lots harder to start in rifles. So I don't use them. In fact I'm proud when I get some expansion from balls planted in deer.

Things change when I switch to a smoothbore. Doesn't seem to matter one little whit whether I use alloy or pure lead.

In fact, if I was going for moose right now, I'd leave my 58 cal rifles at home. I've got a 62 cal GM smoothbore barrel kinda burning a hole in my pocket. I'd use that instead of a rifle, and yeah. I'd load it with balls cast from wheelweights just to be sure of better penetration if I had to punch through a leg to reach the heart. That makes a smoothbore really attractive for me on game larger than deer.

 

[gordy]

Round Balls don"t "HAVE" to be pure lead . But many shooters (myself included) feel that for the best consitancy shot after shot the pure lead is the best . There is also the HC/PC thing , I"ve worked on and rebuilt wagons and horse drawn equipment , and as yet not foun any alloy wheel weights . So I doubt that they would be common "back when". I suppose a round pebble or a clay/ glass marble would shoot when wrapped in patch materil , but not nearly as well as lead . :hmm: :rotf:

 

[saber]

you can mold what ever you want super hardened laed but it only matters is you want to hit your target or if you want your lead ball to expand if you are hunting

 

[roundball]

I suppose a round pebble or a clay/ glass marble would shoot when wrapped in patch materil , but not nearly as well as lead . :hmm: :rotf:

Just some “factoids””¦solid glass marbles do indeed shoot exceptionally well:

.62cal rifled barrel

.58cal rifled barrel after I found the right thickness patch, they just started eating out the center of the target.

 

[gordy]

Roundball , I remember when you were experimenting with alterate projectiles , but never saw your report on the findings . Did you post a report on the results ? :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

I did...and these .jpgs were included in it...but the post was deemed inappropriate and deleted

 

[pepperbelly]

If a pure lead ball is easier to start does that mean it does distort it's shape when loaded? If it does I guess it' not enough to affect accuracy but it seems like it should. Has anyone checked roundness after removing a ball with a Co2 discharger?
I am not wanting to cast hard RBs but I am just curious about it.

Jim

 

[gordy]

Too bad . I thought it was an interesting subject . :hmm: Might come a day when that information might be of value . If the situation in Calif. spreads we may all be looking for alternitives . :thumbsup:

 

[hanshi]

True, you don't have to use pure lead; but it certainly is best, everything considered. Alloy ball will just cast up a little larger so a smaller mold is called for. I use soft lead in my rifles but will be casting up WW ball to use in my .62 smoothie. Alloy is fine in a smoothbore.

 

[roundball]

If a pure lead ball is easier to start does that mean it does distort it's shape when loaded?

That's my personal conclusion based even on using the marble as an example. Since marbles are so cheap...a penny apiece delivered...it should be no surprise that there is minimal quality control involved and the diameter of a common 9/16" marble varies all over the place by .015"-.020".

I had to sort them to use a smaller group in the .58cal, but they could all be used in the .62cal.
At first I didn't leave enough leeway in the size I sorted for the .58cal to also accommodate the occasional additional unexpected dimension of one being 'out-of-round'...whcich if loaded just right, it would be much larger than a mic-check across its diameter on another axis...and one day I got one jammed halfway down...literally had to use a solid 3/8" brass ramrod, a block of oak to protect the rod tip, and a large hammer to get the marble seated on down so I could shoot it out.
I changed my sorting technique to use marbles another .010" smaller and never had another problem.

So comparing the solid marble...which could not change shape...to a soft lead ball which definitely would have changed shape enough under pressure...I'd conclude / speculate that they'd be easier to start than a hard ball.
It is also for this reason why I don't waste any time as I've seen some post...mic-ing pure lead balls and throwing them back in the pot if their diameter has varied .001"-.002"...IMO that variance would be taken care of at short start time.

But I repeat, no science, just my speculation on the matter based on the marble experiences

 

[gordy]

Just my thought . but when you seat RBs in your revolver you actually create a tiny flt band on the ball and may improve the accy. Atight ball/patch combo would tend to do the same (sort of making a conical projectile) Because the ball is rotated on its axis by the rifeling .I would doubt that what distorrtion takes place on loading would have very little effect on accy . :idunno: