What is about a Hawken Rifle

[Jim]

Here’s a ”Hawken“ 54 cal I’m finishing up…Don Getz round-bottom rifling 1:72 36” barrel…. scrap walnut from the job…yet to be sighted in…Hawkens have the “feel” on the shoulder and in hand.

Wow, Patched . . . .

Is it the camera angle . . . .or, does the stock have a ton of drop?

Seems that at 54 cal., your cheek might suffer some bruising, . . . .yes?

None-the-less, that’s some beautiful wood!!

 

[ord sgt]

In the early 90’s I had a T/C Flint Hawken really good shooter and looked nice I sold it to fund a custom Hawken build that never transpired sorry to say. After reading these post I just may get around to a winter project, yes I think I just might……

Yep. Winter projects are great. I just finished my winter project, started last winter, here it is November.. Maybe your new project will be done faster than mine was. Only you know for sure.

 

[ord sgt]

At $1400 that sounds like a bargain to me.

By the time I was finished with my Hawken project from TOW, I had almost that much tied up in my build.

 

[Crockford]

I really enjoy hunting with and shooting both of mine. Custom Jack Crockford on the left and a Ozark Mountain on the right. Both are extremely accurate at 100 yrds.

 

[cornstalk]

Like a lot of you my first muzzle loader was a TC Hawken, back in '76. And although it's era is past my persona's for some reason I still am drawn to Hawkens, I don't know why. Anyway, in reviewing primary documentation here is what I found relating to Hawkens first being in the mountains:

1832
From Robert Campbell's account,
5 Rifle Guns
5 Rifle Guns of men
1 Rifle
pd Hawkins for Pistols
1pr pistols & Holsters
1pr Holsters
So two Hawken pistols with holsters for Robert Campbell. Unlikely they were percussion in my opinion.

1836 is the first documentation of Hawken rifles being brought to Rendezvous
Invoice of Sundry Merchandise from the Rocky Mountain Outfit 1836 under charge of Fontenelle, Fitzpatrick, & Co.
2 dz Gun locks
1/2" Rifle "
4 pairs Pistols Iron
2 Am Rifle
7 "
8 Hawkin "
84 N. W. Guns
30 N. W. Guns
2 Rifles Hawkin
1/2 dz Gun & Rifle locks
2 Rifles Hawkens
10 Boxes Percussion Caps [first mention that I've found]

To me that means someone brought a Hawken rifle to Rendezvous in 1835. Certainly it was a percussion gun. Probably the first cap lock the mountain men had seen. And twelve mountain men wanted one. So in '36 twelve Hawkens came with the rest of the firearms.

1837 more were brought to Rendezvous.
Invoice of Sundry Merchandise furnished Rocky Mountain Outfit 1837 under charge of Fontenelle, Fitzpatrick & Co.
2m Gun Flints
3m Rifle Flints
36 N. W. Guns best quality [$4.50 ea]
5 Am. Rifles steel mounted [$19 ea]
10 Hawkens Rifles [$24 ea]
12 N W Guns [$4.50 ea]

I've always wondered why having a Hawken was such a big deal. It's not an overly good looking rifle (don't kill or scalp the messenger) especially compared to Kentucky/Pennsylvania Long Rifles. Certainly not enough to warrant its high price. Same with firepower. Nothing extraordinary there. Nor accuracy over a Long Rifle. And yet like so many of you for some reason I'm still drawn to them- and will own it when the right one comes along.

I think Hawken became highly desired because it was probably the first cap lock to the mountains, and because Hawken was [I think] the largest gun maker in St Louis so could produce the largest number of cap locks. The name Hawken became synonymous for "cap lock" or "percussion gun" in St Louis. Like Xerox for copiers. And after seeing the speed of loading and the all weather reliability of a percussion gun who wouldn't want one if they could afford it.

Anyway, that's what I've learned and my best guesses. If any of you can add to this please do so.

Was a flintlock Hawken plains rifle ever built? Maybe. Did one ever go to the mountains? The only way we will ever know for sure is if one shows up with documentation showing it did. Certainly a possibility.

 

[Fly Navy]

One of my favorite movies Jeremiah Johnson did it for me. I've had a soft spot for Hawken rifles ever since.

 

[BriR]

Here’s my .54 J&S Hawken built by John Bergmann in 2010 with parts from Don Stith, who owns the original from which this was copied. It has a .54 cal, 1-56" twist, 36" X 1 1/8" - 1" tapered Rice barrel, RE Davis lock, 14 1/4" inch length of pull, and weighs 10 lbs, 13 oz. It’s very accurate with a .530 ball, 100 gr FFg, and a .015 pillow ticking patch with mink oil. Thanks, John, still loving it along with the Edward Marshall flinter you built for me!

 

[Bruce]

I have a Pedersoli Rocky Mt. .54 perc. Very nice looking rifle, maple stock, brown bar. lots fun to shoot. i just like the looks & feel of Hawken style rifles,Bruce

 

[jefair1]

The Hawken Shop kits are $1.4k. Was Mr. Kibler working on a Hawken kit?

That's the present rumor. I hope it is true

 

[Trot]

Usually half stocked? I have never seen a half stocked Hawkin? Some rifles are called Hawkin that maybe half stocked but they are just running on a name, I really don't know?

While the Hawken's certainly made some full stock rifles in their early days, virtually all of the plains rifles that they made were half stock. I don't know if there were any full stock.

 

[Grenadier1758]

There were a few full stock rifles made by the Hawken Brothers. One of the more notable ones is the flint lock rifle made by Sam Hawken in Xenia, Ohio. That rifle has the architecture of a Pennsylvania rifle than the later Plains Rifles. Others do exist, but the half stock rifle is the predominate architecture. There are a few rifles that have what appears to be a flint lock modified for conversion to a percussion lock, but the stock architecture is clearly always of a design for a percussion lock. Either the rifle has a snail in the breech plug. the stocks show no sign of burning from a flash pan, or a cut out for a stop for the flint hammer.

 

[LME]

While the Hawken's certainly made some full stock rifles in their early days, virtually all of the plains rifles that they made were half stock. I don't know if there were any full stock.

I may not understand what your definition of half stock means? I think of it as two piece. the fore grip being a second piece not joined to sthe rear part of the stock?

 

[BriR]

I’ve always understood “half stock” to mean that the stock is one piece, but the forend only extends halfway on the barrel instead of to the very end.

 

[Trot]

I may not understand what your definition of half stock means? I think of it as two piece. the fore grip being a second piece not joined to sthe rear part of the stock?

Just look at the rifle pictured a couple of posts up by BriR, that is a half stock rifle.

 

[Whitworth]

My first muzzleloader was a T/C Hawken which belonged to friend who died from from drinking too much. I bought if from his estate as a reminder to have fun but not too much. I had it for years before I finally shot it. I know now it's all wrong but I don't care, I like it. Trying to pin down down what a true Hawken looks like is like arguing about how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin. The T/C looks great hanging on the wall and that's all that matters to me. RIP Danny. YMMV

 

[Jim]

I love a a Hawken Flint, I know they never were but in my mind they always are, how’s that for some deep philosophy it scared me.

Meb-be’ there were a few flinters . . . .

I refer you to an article in “The American Rifleman“, April, 1951, by the noted Colt author, James Serven.

On page 42, he says:
”Undoubtedly the Hawkens made a few flintlock rifles. None, however, have been generally reported in the hands of collectors, and the number made must be insignificant, and without importance in building the Hawken reputation.”

If at all possible, I suggest finding this ancient article about Hawkens, as it is written with a good bit of “authority.”

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

My first black powder rifle was a T/C Hawken. Bought it almost 40 years ago. Now, I just finishing my last build. A half stock Hawken. Take from this what you want.

Please take some pictures, love to see it, flint?

 

[stephenprops1]

I may not understand what your definition of half stock means? I think of it as two piece. the fore grip being a second piece not joined to sthe rear part of the stock?

A full stock can go out almost to the muzzle. A half-stock can go about halfway down the barrel or less. Either style could be a one piece or a two-piece stock.

 

[Jim Wag]

I have seen a rifle made by J. P. Gemmer who owned the rights and the stamps to produce Hawken rifles. It was made just after the Civil War for a young man who wanted to take a rifle out on the western prairies. It was built according to the Hawken architecture and is probably more representative of a "California" Hawken as it is a 45 caliber rifle. It's about a 7/8ths scale rifle. Iron hardware with two wedges. It's stamped J P Gemmer and in my eyes perhaps a better balanced rifle than the larger bored and heavier barreled Hawken Plains rifles and it still has the Hawken pedigree.

We of the J. P. Gemmer Muzzle Loading Gun Club think Gemmer made the best Hawken Rifles.

Yes

Every
So often
Someone mentions a
"Calfornia" Hawken
But I've never seen a
Picture
Or read a description of
One

Jim in La Luz

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've asked around. No one seems to know.