Well I got the Smoothbore, but now...

[megasupermagnum]

So to recap.
The OP was shooting right by 6 plus inch @ 25yds.
So at 100yds theoretically that would grow to 24 plus inches.
So in theory the barrel needs 25 minutes of angle adjustment.
Bow I ain't no mathematician but I reckons that is alot of bending to achieve! No?

No, it is not that much bending. I've only seen it done to shotgun barrels, which are relatively short compared to this, but it isn't much. Of the people who build bending jigs, it doesn't take much. I don't know the exact math, but it is not like adjusting sights. Bending a barrel .005" makes a huge difference. .005" to .010" is probably all we are talking of bending to get this guy on target.

 

[Britsmoothy]

No, it is not that much bending. I've only seen it done to shotgun barrels, which are relatively short compared to this, but it isn't much. Of the people who build bending jigs, it doesn't take much. I don't know the exact math, but it is not like adjusting sights. Bending a barrel .005" makes a huge difference. .005" to .010" is probably all we are talking of bending to get this guy on target.

Well when I bent a barrel to get a similar amount of shift it was heck of a lot more than .005"- .010"! Actually I've bent three barrels and it was more than you say sir.

 

[smo]

Up or down is not as big a deal as shifting it right or left 5".



As for barrel manufacturers bending barrels, it IS NOT done to treat a symptom. It is done to straighten them!

That’s exactly what we did…straightened it.

You could actually see the slightest curve in my 44” Colerain oct to round barrel…When I first removed it from the stock.
Once we got it looking straight, it shoots straight.

It Definitely helped in my case..
I never cared for aiming over there , too hit over here.
Modern steel barrels will flex a lot more than I thought.
Like mentioned earlier, .0010, ain’t much in 44”.

Beating a barrel or hitting it against a tree I would worry about denting it or worse kinking it…Applying steady pressure is the key in my opinion.
Some of the Guys I shoot with have practiced this for several years and I don’t recall hearing of a barrel being trashed from the steady, controlled pressure applied whikestraightening.

I’m not sure if my barrel got warped in shipping, during assembly or from the factory .

I bought the gun new “in the white” and never applied any finish too it.

It always shot low & left, but not anymore!

I’ve got a double gun that I need too pattern soon, if those barrels need an adjustment…. A file it will be!

 

[Brokennock]

Straightening a barrel I can understand. Bending a straight barrel to change p.o.i.? Not so much.

 

[Brokennock]

I just don't get all the hand wringing over flexing a barrel to move the point of ball impact.

And a few of us, "don't get all the hand ringing," about filing the muzzle a usually imperceptible amount to make the change. Especially when that change can be more easily corrected.
I have a hard time believing that of one bends the barrel too far for the desired p.o.i. that one will be able to return the barrel to where on started. Getting the bend back in the other direction in the exact same place.

 

[smo]

I fully agree… But if it’s straight it should hit the intended target.
I shot my gun for 4 years prior too taking the leap..
My barrel was placed in the fork of a tree, padded so not too damage the patina.

A club member that was experienced in the process did the flexing..

It appeared my barrel flexed 3 - 4 “ as he applied his 230 lbs while standing , cradling the barrel against his chest leaning into it.

The barrel returned too what appeared too be straight..
I put the barrel back in the stock and fired 2-3 more rounds.. He had the elevation right but still off too the left.
One more trip too the tree and I was a happy camper.

The barrel doesn’t bend in one spot.. it’s a gentle curve.

If it bends in one spot well …. We got a problem Houston!

Which I could see might cause a curve ball so too speak as mentioned above, but at smoothbore distances … I don’t think so.

Another club member did what BN just mentioned… he took it too far.
His .58 smoothbore looked like a banana!
It Instantly went too shooting 6” high at 25 yards!!
He simply removed the barrel again, placed it back into the bending jig ( prior to it being misplaced) and flexed it back the other direction…

According to those older , more experienced members at my club, the barrel has too be flexed past the extended amount and then brought back too the extended position so the flex will “take”..

 

[Brokennock]

The barrel doesn’t bend in one spot.. it’s a gentle curve

Yes, I understand this. But, that gentle arc has an apex.
If using a fancy jig with a high level of control, I would agree that if bent too far,, returning the barrel in the original direction is more probable.
But, if not using a controlled jig,,, I have serious doubts. Also, if the apex of that arc is, as example, 15 inches from the muzzle and is bent too far, what do we have when we bend back to the left, but our apex bending to the left is 17 inches from the muzzle?

Could have just filed the muzzle back to square, or close to it.

 

[Toklo Etee]

And a few of us, "don't get all the hand ringing," about filing the muzzle a usually imperceptible amount to make the change. Especially when that change can be more easily corrected.
I have a hard time believing that of one bends the barrel too far for the desired p.o.i. that one will be able to return the barrel to where on started. Getting the bend back in the other direction in the exact same place.

Sir.....I have obviously offended you & that was not my intention. If you can file the end of the muzzle and get the gun to shoot a tight group with a round ball to point of aim....that's great! If you will carefully read what I wrote...I never said your method will not work.....BUT this is not my first rodeo either!
The OP asked for advice on how to move his group to point of aim and that is something I have successfully done for about 6 different Flint smoothbore guns that were mine that I shot in competition/hunting or belonged to friends.
I have always heard a picture is worth a thousand words....this is my son's gun. Looking back in my notes....it originally shot 10" right & 5" low at 25 yards, so I had to flex this barrel more than the OP would have to to move his point of aim. All this shooting was from a bench to see what the gun was doing.

After pulling the barrel and changing the POI....You can see......his barrel does not look like a snake and it doesn't have an "ugly" bend and now it shoots a decent group using .006 undersized ball & Spanish Moss for wadding.

I did have to pull the barrel about three times to adjust the POI.

Long story short... If your method works Great! ........but I KNOW my method works because EVERY gun I own shoots point of aim.......you don't win many matches or kill deer if you are having to adjust your sight picture because you constantly hit to the left or right, ect.

I hope this will provide information/entertainment/ect to all who read it

 

[oldwood]

I would never consider bending an expensive gun barrel , when a couple minutes w/ a plumbing torch ,solder and liquid flux would fix it.

 

[megasupermagnum]

@Britsmoothy, maybe I should have elaborated. You have to bend on a barrel a lot to get it to move. I'm pretty sure those jig bend a barrel .200" before it will spring back and actually take a bend about .005" from original. So yes, you do have to bend them a ways, but it doesn't end up being that much because of springback.

@oldwood, I guess that depends on how it is to begin with. If the sight was put on crooked, then by all means, don't mess with bending or anything else, just fix the sight. If the sight is already straight, then unlike bending a barrel, you do have to move a sight quite a ways to make this much difference. It might look goofy if you put the sight where it shoots straight.

 

[Brokennock]

Sir.....I have obviously offended you & that was not my intention. If you can file the end of the muzzle and get the gun to shoot a tight group with a round ball to point of aim....that's great! If you will carefully read what I wrote...I never said your method will not work.....BUT this is not my first rodeo either!
The OP asked for advice on how to move his group to point of aim and that is something I have successfully done for about 6 different Flint smoothbore guns that were mine that I shot in competition/hunting or belonged to friends.
I have always heard a picture is worth a thousand words....this is my son's gun. Looking back in my notes....it originally shot 10" right & 5" low at 25 yards, so I had to flex this barrel more than the OP would have to to move his point of aim. All this shooting was from a bench to see what the gun was doing.

After pulling the barrel and changing the POI....You can see......his barrel does not look like a snake and it doesn't have an "ugly" bend and now it shoots a decent group using .006 undersized ball & Spanish Moss for wadding.

I did have to pull the barrel about three times to adjust the POI.

Long story short... If your method works Great! ........but I KNOW my method works because EVERY gun I own shoots point of aim.......you don't win many matches or kill deer if you are having to adjust your sight picture because you constantly hit to the left or right, ect.

I hope this will provide information/entertainment/ect to all who read it

No, you have not offended me.
No concerns there.
I'm just tired of the ridiculous hypocrisy of people who will risk bending a barrel, which I know will work, but can't be undone easily or precisely,,,, but get freaked out and call for the torches and pitchforks when filing the muzzle is mentioned.

It is not my technique. It is a method older than anyone on this forum.

I'm not 100% against bending a barrel. I don't understand why it is the 1st choice for so many people, many of whom advise new shooters to avoid removing the barrel from the stock when cleaning is asked about....... but somehow removing it a few times to bend the barrel is okay. Why is it 1st choice when a few strokes of a file or diamond plate could quickly do the job?
Not only am I not against it 100%, I have a gun I would consider bending. It is a flintlock smoothbore pistol that shoots high, and, there is a gap between the barrel and the front edge of the stock. Bending would fix both issues, and it is not an expensive gun so I'm not real concerned about messing it up, also, if bending it to meet the stock has it shooting a little low, I don't have to bend it back up, I can't take off a bit of front sight.

As I said,,,, many, many ,times, when this subject comes up, I just don't understand the shock and horror at the idea of a few file strokes off a tiny sector of the muzzle, but, sticking the barrel in a tree fork and leaning on it is okay.
I guess being able to say, "yeah I just bent that steel tube and made it comply with my will," sounds more cool and manly than, "I corrected my p.o.i. with a few file strokes off the muzzle running from 5:00 to 3:00."

 

[DuncNZ]

I have seen budget British made double shotguns with the muzzles filed on different angles to regulate the point of aim .

 

[megasupermagnum]

Bending a barrel is not my first choice, but on a single barrel, thin wall barrel, it's pretty much the best option if sights cant fix it reasonably. I've done both. I've bent barrels, and I've filed the muzzle. Both are valid ways to go, and both are reversible. You loose a tiny bit of the muzzle if you file it back flat, but not a huge deal. It is as easy to bend a barrel back as it was to bend it in the first place.

In a SXS, filing the muzzles is about the only way for a normal guy. I've tried it twice, I had zero luck with it. If we are talking about small corrections of say 6" or less at 50 yards, then sure, filing the muzzle works well enough. In my case, mine were worse than that. I ended up having the muzzles WAY off, they looked horrible, and I still couldn't quite get them regulated. Neither hit to the bead in both guns. All filing does is change which side of the ball or bullet gets released first, and as a result pushed one way by the gases. There is a limit to how much you can go.

With bending a barrel, you can't even see it. A tiny little bit makes a huge difference. You basically have infinite adjustment.

As I said originally, changing the sights is the first thing anyone should look at. The thing is though that if your barrel is already such that it hits 6" off at 25 yards, you are going to have to have your sights way off to the side to fix this. It would look horrible. If you have both a front and rear sight, it's not that bad, but a front sight only smoothbore, it's worth a shot I guess to see how it looks. Maybe you could get it close enough that you could file the muzzles for fine tuning. I really doubt you could move a ball 6" at 25 yards with the muzzle alone.