Uberti or Pietta 1861 Navy?

[45D]

Well, that's generally what happens. The "ill" timed revolvers don't get better, they get worse. The late Denis Prisbrey had a new Pietta '60 Army sent to me to tune for an article in GOTOW mag. The cam was sheared off in less than 50 action cycles (this was early in my "tuning" career . . . since then I don't cycle a revolver more than a couple of times and that's to check trigger engagement). So, I had to make and install a cam before I could start the tuning process !! The point is - thick / unforgiving parts that are over sprung can destroy these revolvers in pretty short order. Even though they can be "corrected " it's better to start with the better parts that need less attention.
Of course, that's my opinion after several hundreds of each. Either way ( I get sent both anyway!!) both leave here the same animal anyway.

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

Well, that's generally what happens. The "ill" timed revolvers don't get better, they get worse. The late Denis Prisbrey had a new Pietta '60 Army sent to me to tune for an article in GOTOW mag. The cam was sheared off in less than 50 action cycles (this was early in my "tuning" career . . . since then I don't cycle a revolver more than a couple of times and that's to check trigger engagement). So, I had to make and install a cam before I could start the tuning process !! The point is - thick / unforgiving parts that are over sprung can destroy these revolvers in pretty short order. Even though they can be "corrected " it's better to start with the better parts that need less attention.
Of course, that's my opinion after several hundreds of each. Either way ( I get sent both anyway!!) both leave here the same animal anyway.

Mike

Was

Well, that's generally what happens. The "ill" timed revolvers don't get better, they get worse. The late Denis Prisbrey had a new Pietta '60 Army sent to me to tune for an article in GOTOW mag. The cam was sheared off in less than 50 action cycles (this was early in my "tuning" career . . . since then I don't cycle a revolver more than a couple of times and that's to check trigger engagement). So, I had to make and install a cam before I could start the tuning process !! The point is - thick / unforgiving parts that are over sprung can destroy these revolvers in pretty short order. Even though they can be "corrected " it's better to start with the better parts that need less attention.
Of course, that's my opinion after several hundreds of each. Either way ( I get sent both anyway!!) both leave here the same animal anyway.

Mike

Was he "DPris" over on the Ruger Forum? I haven't been on there in years but I remember him

I think Pietta like many gunmakers has bad "batches " of parts, or less experienced assemblers , etc

In about 2015 I bought 2 brand new Ruger GP100s and a .45 Redhawk. All 3 of them locked up after a few cylinders from the cylinder being fitted too tight and not allowing for heat expansion. Ruger sent me shipping labels and fixed all 3 within a week and didn't want to talk about it.....maybe the same guy was doing the final fitting and messed up a batch.

 

[Stantheman86]

Who makes these? Uberti or Pietta? With a 7 1/2" barrel I'm assuming Uberti with their non-MIM internals and apparently short arbor.

In terms of price premium, it looks like they are $70 more expensive than similar models from out of stock sources with 'base' models of Uberti and Pietta. A $70 price premium might be a reasonable thing for someone like myself totally new to these.

As a new buyer I'm assuming just wants a trouble free gun to plink around with, I'd just get the Uberti

If you can find one from Cimarron it would be worth it, Uberti apparently makes them to a higher standard for Cimarron and those guns have the Cimarron address on the barrel. I have 2 regular Uberti Walkers and a Cimarron and I can see and feel the difference

Also, if there's an issue Cimarron stands behind the guns they import unlike MidWay

 

[45D]

Was
Was he "DPris" over on the Ruger Forum? I haven't been on there in years but I remember him

Yes, that one and other forums. Nice guy!!

I get that some folks don't care about the beauty ring but, a bolt mark on a cylinder in a SA revolver with a Colt type action denotes a timing problem /issue or mishandling. Even on Ruger 3 screw revolvers, the bolt drops in the approach and you'll find clean cylinders on more 3 screw Rugers than you will on almost any Ruger NM .

Mike

 

[springfield art]

From my unbiased experience and owning several of both, for what it's worth.....

The Uberti guns are fitted and finished better, but will have a short arbor for those concerned about this.

4 out of 6 of my Piettas developed timing issues after several hundred rounds to the point where at half cock, or when the hammer is moved just past half cock, the bolt moves up out of the cutout. I'm currently working on them to see if polishing up the interface of the bolt leg and cam may fix it, or maybe these guns need to be thoroughly detail cleaned every time you fire them because they did not do this when new. Or if the bolt leg and cam became worn this quickly. I ordered 2 new bolts from Taylor's to see if I may have bad or soft bolts with legs that are too short. I even ordered a Uberti bolt to see if maybe I can fit it, just to try it. If I can fix this, they'll go back to being good shooters again . Hopefully they just need some "fluff and buff" to the internals.

I have admittedly fired 1000s of rounds through my Uberti 1851 Navy without detail cleaning it and it hasn't developed this issue

My Piettas are very accurate and solid guns otherwise, they still function with this issue but perhaps the recent run of them have bad cam fitting or soft bolts. All of my 4 .36 Navy brassers have at least 300 rounds through them which isn't a lot. One of them had a loading lever that was too short and rattled around. For $220-250 for a Pietta Navy I don't expect perfection but they may need some work or tweaking.

The brand new Pietta Colt Navies have a higher front sight pin regulated to 25 yards. My new 2022 .44 Navy is dead nuts at 25

My one Uberti Walker developed a little slop in the fit of the barrel locator pins , after a few range sessions with 50 grain charges. These definitely need the short arbor fixed.

I honestly feel with post-Pandemic production it's a toss up. If I were buying one myself I'd get the Uberti.

All of my 6 Piettas are brasser Navies, that I bought to use as range blasters and to tinker around with.

I don't know why the Factory didn't long ago deal with the Short Arbor thing!?

 

[springfield art]

That's great if you can only use "non modified" examples but all of what you mention can be "fixed/adjusted". The action parts in Piettas are modern copies of 1980's parts. Thick and hard, not compliant at all!! I spend way more time on Pietta action parts compared to correctly made Uberti parts. In the end they can all be made to perform perfectly.

Mike

Your informed knowledge in inspecting these pistols equals that of Tuco, of the 'Fistful' movies, who took apart and eyed the guns on display at the general store! I'm impressed with the detailed knowledge of metallurgy and parts engineering that I've read on this site. Thanks.

 

[Stantheman86]

I don't know why the Factory didn't long ago deal with the Short Arbor thing!?

If Pietta can do it, Uberti can too

Make the Arbor long and hit it with a file to fit it, like what, an extra 10 minutes of skilled labor per gun at the Uberti factory. No one cares if the arbor end looks rough.

I have a pack of 5mm washers I'm going to play with tonight in my Walkers

They try to make it seem normal with the whole "you can adjust the barrel/cylinder gap!" thing.

 

[GYJ]

Now, today, Uberti is down in quality and Pietta is up in quality.

When did this happen? Most would agree that both makers have upped their game in the last decade.

If you can find one from Cimarron it would be worth it, Uberti apparently makes them to a higher standard for Cimarron and those guns have the Cimarron address on the barrel.

That's a myth.

 

[springfield art]

When did this happen? Most would agree that both makers have upped their game in the last decade.



That's a myth.

I respectfully don't believe that's a myth. Cimmarons are made to a higher standard because the CEO specifies and pays more for them. BTW, the "upping of the game" may be due to CNC machinery!

 

[GYJ]

I respectfully don't believe that's a myth. Cimmarons are made to a higher standard because the CEO specifies and pays more for them. BTW, the "upping of the game" may be due to CNC machinery!

It is a myth and that has been proven time and again. It was true 40yrs ago when Cimarron was paying an extra $30 per gun for extra work. It is not true today and hasn't been in a long time. Mike even admitted this himself on another forum. All the importers receive the same guns. I've got 29 Uberti guns from every importer including Cimarron, Stoeger, Taylor's, Dixie Gun Works and EMF and there is no difference among them, other than the importer markings. Same goes for Piettas, which number 15 in my stable.

The new CNC machinery was part of it but they've also improved their finish work.

 

[Stantheman86]

The only hard facts I have with this , are that the metal polishing is definitely better on my Cimarron Walker vs the 2 I got from Sportsman's Guide. Mechanically and internally they appear the same, my "regular " Ubertis are perfectly timed and slick too and my Uberti 1851 Navy has been trouble free for almost 15 years and 1000s of rounds.

So at least it used to be, that Uberti made the guns cosmetically better

Cimarron used to offer the Premium finishes like the Charcoal Blue and "Old West" finish but apparently the Old West finish wasn't popular and they stopped offering it.

 

[Mike in FL]

Mike, my match guns and have been tuned just like all the the serious shooters guns. Don`t know any High Master or Master class pistol shooter who shoots "non modified" examples. Only shot the "Colt type" match that one year. High master class gold results was my only goal. Pietta worked just fine. Only trigger, action tune and a few spring adjustments needed. Maybe nobody shot a Uberti that year. Just got lucky maybe...c

 

[Mike in FL]

The other Mike. I k ow little about BP revolvers;I don't even know what an Arbor is, but I would pay more for Y the UbertUberti

 

[Mike in FL]

My tablet is screwing up. Typing words twice.

 

[TDM]

My tablet is screwing up. Typing words twice.

not not a a problem problem

 

[TDM]

Opinions on which make is best tends to be more subjective than objective because it’s based on personal experience and none of us have handled and shot all of them. The subjective reason I feel Pietta is better as of today is based on my experience. I purchased a couple of Pietta 1858’s in the early-mid 80’s, they were and still are good shooters but while the fit and finish was ok, it wasn’t great. 10 years ago I purchased a Uberti Leech & Rigdon that I hand selected at DGW. It was, and still has the nicest finish of all. But I did have to polish up the internals, which I consider normal. On that same trip I bought a Pietta Spiller & Burr. It was like a toy gun compared to the Uberti. But I wanted it, ended up giving it to one of my Sons who sent it off and had it gone through. About 3 years ago I made another trip to DGW to buy a Uberti 1860. After looking at several I was unimpressed and looked at the Pietta model, which were nicer and smoother. So I bought the Pietta. Just a few months ago I ordered a Pietta 1851, all steel, on sale, sight unseen. It was, without a doubt, the smoothest, out of the box action, I’ve ever seen. And the finish was nice too. It had a 2021 build date. So that’s my experience. And my revolvers are lucky to get fired a 100 rounds a year so I can’t comment on how each hold up.

 

[Bad Karma]

The other Mike. I k ow little about BP revolvers;I don't even know what an Arbor is, but I would pay more for Y the UbertUberti

If it’s worth saying it’s worth saying twice. In the case of Uberti vs Pietta at least.

I’m an Uberti fan. Have been since I started shooting cap and ball. Back then, Uberti was far superior. ASM produced some good revolvers, also Centaure at times. But the Ubertis were also the most accurate replicas available, side by side with original Colts they were absolutely the closest copies in all respects with fit and finish that was comparable to originals. I’m sure the Piettas made today are good guns, very serviceable and from a distance, do look the part. Still, certain dimensions and forms are not really close copies of original Colts.

 

[TDM]

If it’s worth saying it’s worth saying twice. In the case of Uberti vs Pietta at least.

I’m an Uberti fan. Have been since I started shooting cap and ball. Back then, Uberti was far superior. ASM produced some good revolvers, also Centaure at times. But the Ubertis were also the most accurate replicas available, side by side with original Colts they were absolutely the closest copies in all respects with fit and finish that was comparable to originals. I’m sure the Piettas made today are good guns, very serviceable and from a distance, do look the part. Still, certain dimensions and forms are not really close copies of original Colts.

I agree with that. The Uberti is a closer copy of the Colts, especially the receiver.

 

[Bad Karma]

I agree with that. The Uberti is a closer copy of the Colts, especially the receiver.

And various other dimensions and forms around the loading port, the barrel underlug , loading levers and grips. Colt did such an amazing job crafting these pistols with graceful flowing lines everywhere… compare an original hammer for instance, against a replica. You’ll want to throw rocks at the replica.

 

[TDM]

And various other dimensions and forms around the loading port, the barrel underlug , loading levers and grips. Colt did such an amazing job crafting these pistols with graceful flowing lines everywhere… compare an original hammer for instance, against a replica. You’ll want to throw rocks at the replica.

Amongst the (many) regrets I have is not buying a 2nd gen Colt back when they were for sale. I had plenty of opportunities and just wouldn’t or couldn’t cough up the extra dollars. If I just had a 2nd gen 1851….