Uberti Mfg. Colt 1860 Army Wedge Non-Fit

[straightcut]

I purchased a little used 2006 production Uberti Colt 1860 Army, .44 Cal that I have yet to fire. When I purchased it, it was assembled and the seller said he'd fired it only a few times.

I disassembled it to look it over, once I got it home. Now, I can't for the life of me, get the wedge key installed. The barrel is fully seated at the water table (where barrel meets frame below the cylinder). I've removed the wedge screw and completely removed the wedge and see the slot in the arbor appears to be too short at the forward end (I hope that makes sense). Stated another way, when I look through the wedge slot in the barrel, at the forward end of the slot, I see that the slot in the arbor is offset with the barrel wedge slot. Further, with the barrel fully seated on the frame, the cylinder to barrel gap is LARGE. I don't have feeler gauges with me now, but by "eyeballing" it, I'd guess that the gap is .010 - .012".

When I install the wedge key, because of the offset of the wedge slots in barrel and arbor, the wedge key goes at an angle. It's possible that it was installed in this manner when I purchased it. I can't understand how the wedge key could have been installed straight, given the offset of the wedge slots.

If I filed (I wish I had a mill!) the rear watertable face of the barrel, I will reduce the cylinder end gap AND reduce the offset at the wedge key slot - most likely allowing the wedge key to be installed (straight).

Before I take out the file, has anyone had this issue and is this the recommended solution?

I'm sorry, I don't have a camera that can capture what I'm trying to describe, so I hope my description will suffice. Thanks in advance for your kind thoughts!

 

[hawkeye2]

Keep in mind that as you bring the barrel back you may run into a situation where the arbor bottoms out in the hole in the barrel though given Uberti's propensity for short arbors that may not happen.

 

[Zonie]

The slot in the arbor is supposed to be slightly offset to the rear (closer to the cylinder) but not so much that you can't insert the key.

The idea is, the front surface of the wedge bumps against the forward surface in the arbor.

As the wedge is pushed thru the arbor and into the far side of the barrel slot it pushes against the two rear surfaces of the barrel slot.
This drives the barrel aft, towards the cylinder.

The wedge is also tapered, being slightly smaller at the forward end and wider back where the spring screw is located.

This taper acts to drive the barrel further to the rear as the wedge is inserted.

As for the correct interface between the lower area of the barrel and the front of the frame, ideally, without the wedge installed, the forward end of the arbor will bottom out in the barrels arbor hole exactly at the same time that the lower area of the barrel touches the front of the frame. (The "water table" as you called it.)

With the correct setup, the wedge merely holds the barrel snugly against the forward end of the arbor.
In this position, often the front face of the cylinder will be pressing against the rear of the barrel because of the spring pressure from the hand spring at the rear of the cylinder.
The cylinder should move .004-.010 aft before the cylinder bumps against the recoil shield if a rearward pressure is applied to it creating a barrel to cylinder gap of .004-.010.

The length of the arbor is seldom correct to position the barrel as it should.
For that reason, many shooters will add a thin washer to the bottom of the arbor hole in the barrel or epoxy it to the forward end of the arbor.
Some have added a very short set screw to the forward end of the arbor to do the same thing but obviously the set screw must not protrude into the arbor wedge slot.

By the way, the wedge is not designed to have the wedge spring hook on the right side of the barrel when it is installed. the hook in the wedge spring is intended to catch on the head of the screw to keep the wedge from falling out when the wedge is retracted and the barrel is removed.

If your wedge does not easily start thru the slot in the barrel and arbor it may be because the wedge is too wide.

Rather than trying to adjust the slots in the arbor or the barrel, use a smooth flat file to reduce the width of the wedge.

 

[straightcut]

Ok, I didn't think I could get a photo even that decent. What is not well depicted is the offset of the wedge slots between the arbor and barrel assy. If I were to simply file the leading edge of the wedge slot of the arbor, I wouldn't reduce the large cylinder/barrel gap.

 

[necchi]

When I purchased it, it was assembled and the seller said he'd fired it only a few times.

The seller lied, That barrel does not belong to that frame.
Don't panic,, if you got a bargain you should be able to fix it,, if you paid top dollar,, hunt the SOB down and get your money back!

 

[straightcut]

If I post a few pictures, maybe I can get good at this! :wink: This picture does a better job of capturing the offset of the wedge key slots.

Thank you for your comments!

 

[Ray-Vigo]

Zonie is correct that there should be a bit of an offset in the wedge slot between arbor and barrel assembly. But you are also right that you seem to have a really large cylinder gap there.

Do you have a way of seeing how close the end of the arbor is to bottoming out in the barrel hole where the arbor goes? Ubertis tend to have short arbors, but if you've got a really large gap length-wise in the barrel-arbor hole fit, something is off in the frame's length. A small gap length-wise in the arbor to barrel hole fit is normal in an Uberti, hence why people shim that to fit. But a very large miss-fit in there would mean you may be onto something about the frame's overall dimensions being off.

 

[necchi]

Do you have a way of seeing how close the end of the arbor is to bottoming out in the barrel hole where the arbor goes?

Yup, that's what I was thinkin too :thumbsup:

 

[M. De Land]

The best way to remove metal from the barrel where it abuts the lower frame is in a lathe between centers in the barrel forcing cone and via a brass spud center in the muzzle.
Light cut must be taken so as not to bend anything but this will make it square to the bore. It could be done on a mill also but the set up would be harder. I have both and the lathe is easier and more accurate for this job.
Actually I have done this job by hand before and gotten perfectly satisfactory results.
If done correctly you should be able to hold the joint up to the light and not see any gaps. Go slow and check progress often. Use magic marker to coat the surface your working so you can see the progress.
Usually it will need a bit of dress up with a diamond file and sometimes the alignment pins need to have their hole seats made deeper.
An adjustable set screw in the end of the arbor is a good idea but as this will almost certainly never need to be done again a calibrated steel plug would be just as good. If the arbor hole needs deeper it should be done with properly fitting end end mill. Drill bits are now really very good for this as they can cut the hole out of round if flexed or not held coaxial and the end of the hole should be flat.

Also make sure your wedge does not have a ledge swagged into it from some one trying to tap it deeper than the slot will allow.

 

[straightcut]

I'll be out of town tomorrow, but will have a closer look at the Uberti and re-read all of the comments.

Thanks so much for all of your comments and good information, so far!

 

[M. De Land]

In the second picture it looks like the front end of the barrel slot has been peened out from a wedge being driven in to far at some point. Perhaps while it was off the frame.
The wedge should bear against both sides of the barrel slot at the rear and match the taper in the front of the arbor slot making no contact with the front of the barrel slot.
If fit up right the wedge does not need to be pounded out but can be pushed out with piece of wood or butt of a screw driver.

 

[rdstrain49]

SC, have you fired it yet? May I suggest that if you have not, shoot it some. You just might find that in spite of a less than ideal fit it shoots just fine. No sense fixing what ain't broke and if you haven't shot it yet you don't know if it's broken and needs fixin. Relax and have fun with it.

 

[azmntman]

:nono: not till he gets the wedge installed! be a pain to go pick up the barrel and remount it every shot :rotf:

 

[rdstrain49]

Real men use Duck Tape & baler twine

 

[azmntman]

:hmm: DAT'LL WORK :thumbsup: :haha:

 

[ZUG]

First - Don't Panic :grin: . Everyone has given some good advise already so I will give my thoughts to this.
First: the barrel cylinder gap you have is not uncommon. Unless you have a mill or are VERY GOOD with a file I would leave it alone. I have a mill and I reduced the barrel gap on my brothers 40+ year old ASM 1851 that he shot the heck out of.
Second: The relation of the arbor slot to the barrel window is a bit off and the barrel window does show where the wedge has been driven in hard to seat the wedge. I would get a new wedge and fit it to allow for a more confortable fit and save the original for later if you need to do a wedge re-fit.
Third: If you plan to use this pistol for anything other that "tin can" fun (i.e. pistol competition) I would put it aside and buy a 1858 Remington. :v

 

[Flintlock_bob]

The first time I took my Uberti apart then back together my wedge didn't want to fit either. I just took my fiber mallet and tapped the end of the barrel a bit then it went in fine. After shooting it and cleaning a few times it goes together much easier.

 

[Flintlock_bob]

When I purchased it, it was assembled and the seller said he'd fired it only a few times.

The seller lied, That barrel does not belong to that frame.
Don't panic,, if you got a bargain you should be able to fix it,, if you paid top dollar,, hunt the SOB down and get your money back!

Why do you say that barrel doesn't belong to that frame? Because of the gap? My first Uberti, purchased new, had an 0.18 gap when fully seated with the wedge in, which never got tight. I sent that one back. Sometimes the tolerances can vary from gun to gun.

 

[straightcut]

Unfortunately, I didn't have access to my feeler gauges, but did try one of those round, ramped spark plug gauging tools...so take it with a grain of salt when I say the cylinder to barrel gap is between .020 - .025". Still, I'm sure that's closer than my first guess of .010".

You gentlemen have great eyes to catch that slight amount of peening on the left side of the frame (forward edge of the wedge "window" on the frame). I hadn't even noticed that myself! :bow:

I have at least one friend with a mill :hmm: and would feel much better about using a mill than giving it a try with a file. So, assuming the cylinder to barrel gap is in fact .020", would I mill off .015"? And which side to mill from? Would I pull the alignment pins from the frame and take all of it from that side, take it all from the barrel side (so you don't have to mess with the pins), or take half from each side?

I bought this fairly reasonably (if it were not a factory defect) . The seller said he shot it once or twice, which I believe because the condition is good apart from this issue.

Thanks very much for all of your suggestions!

 

[straightcut]

Unfortunately, the barrel is fully seated and this wedge will not go in. I've tapped with the plastic end of a medium sized screwdriver. I'm reasonably convinced that if I got more heavy handed, it still wouldn't go.