Turkey Pipe Dream?

[guylabou]

I have been browsing the forum for the last month or so while contemplating the purchase of my first muzzleloader. I have learned a bit already just from the many comments and replays on many different topics. I have not shot a bp gun yet so I have no experience with them. I decided to go with a Penn long rifle with a swamped barrel in 50 cal for whitetail hunting. Then I thought some more and said to myself, “Hey, if you get a smoothbore you could use this gun for turkey hunting also!” Is this possible or have I wandered onto the neighbors property where I don’t belong? If it is possible, what is the smallest caliber turkey hunters out there recommend. My past turkey hunting has been with a 20 gauge. All head shots at close range. (I like to be very sure of my shots.)

Once again I climb the mountain to seek the knowledge of my elders.

Thanks for the help

 

[CoyoteJoe]

The smoothbore is often considered to be the "do-it-all-gun", provided the "all" does not include shots at more than 50 yards. If you have been satisfied with the 20 gauge breechloader you should be happy with that bore size in ML guns. However, you will find that a cylinder bore gun does greatly reduce you effective range with bird shot by roughly half what you may have gotten from a full choke gun. Without some degree of choke most people find 25 yards to be about the maximum range for reliable kills. Adding a jug choke will greatly improve the shot patterns, extending the effective range to 40 yards or more, but I don't believe a jug choke is the best thing for accuracy with the ball load.
Likewise with ball the reliable range for a smoothbore is about half that of a good rifle. Even a "not-so-good" rifle will deliver kill zone accuracy to 100 yards, whereas, it is an exceptional smoothbore which can do as well at 75 yards. Now it is true than many people find little need to shoot past 50 yards and for those conditions a smoothbore is fine. Here in Colorado I do not feel much handicapped with a .50 caliber flint rifle but hunting deer, antelope and elk with a smoothbore would certainly "cramp my style".
A possibility worth considering is that Colerain, and likely other barrel makers as well, can supply octagon/round swamped barrels with your choice of smoothbore or rifled bores. Thus you could build a "switch-barrel-gun" with, let's say, a 20 gauge smoothbore and a .54 or .58 rifled barrel to interchange on one gun. Track of The Wolf, Pecatonica River and others do offer kits which will work for a switch-barrel-gun. Call them up and discuss the idea.

 

[longfowler]

check you local game laws, there is usualy a minimun bore size for turkey hunting. I have killed birds with a 12 ga musket, and personaly wouldn't go below a 20 ga. for turkeys. they are hard to kill, like coyote joe says, range is even more limited with a unchoked muzzleloader, so you need to get as much birdshot in the air as you can!

 

[torn moc]

I like Coyote Joes advise about a switchable gun.
Turkeys are Not out of the question for a muzzleloader at all...You will have a Blast!

 

[No Deer]

I hunt all game all seasons with my 20 ga. cylinder bored smoothie. Here in Michigan, from what I have seen, it is not necessary to take shots out past 50 yards, if you are patient enough, so the smoothbore does very well. I have taken deer, turkey, quail, squirrel, and duck with my trade gun. The smoothbore is versatilie enough, and big enough to take any game here in Michigan.

 

[tg]

I woukld look into a smoothrilfe in .62 the rear sight could get you ouy to 60-70 yds depending on you and the gun and would also give you a gun for shot as well. the Early Virginia like Chambers offeres is a very comfortable gun in this style either in oct to rd or swamped oct, a Fusil with rear sight could do as well. look around at the TOW guns and various sites to see what some of them look like, and give your typical hunting ranges and situations, regulations a close scrutiny before chooseing

 

[MSW]

i heard somewhere that Green Mountain made a drop- in barrel for the T/C Renegade which would go .62 cal smoothie (aka 20 guage), and when you're done, you pop it out and put your .50 cal back in.

another item on my can't- go- on- without- it list

 

[guylabou]

My original budget was $500. Add on a second barrel and my wife may never let me back in the house. I've already determined that I will be going WAY over budget. Maybe what I can do is check out the switch barrel idea (with the supplier) and pick up the second barrel later on. The trade gun sounds like a nice idea also. Will have to consider that. Would I need to invest in health insurance with a .62. How often would I be dislocating my shoulder?

 

[No Deer]

It is my experience that the .62 kick is no worse, and probably not as bad as, a modern 20 gage.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I don't know what you are putting in a 20 gauge shotgun shell of modern design, but black powder does not detonate as does smokeless, so any recoil is more a shove, than a sharp slap to the shoulder and face. All recoil is felt according to the design of the stock, the weight of the gun, and how the shooter mounts the gun to his shoulder and face. If you screw up any of these factors, you can be hurt, although usually not badly.

Since you are new to the forum, I will hazard you are new to Black Powder. I therefore commend to your reading Bob Spenser's Excellent website, Black Powder Notebook. He has two articles on loading shotguns, one he wrote, and the other from an old master named V.M. Starr. I recommend that you read both articles before you consider the first load you put in any shotgun.
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

You should also search out and buy a copy of Lyman's Black Powder Manual, second Edition, by Sam Fadala. Its has loading information for most black powder guns with down range ballistics to satisfy your curiousity.

Black Powder shotgun loads are rarely loaded to a level above the speed of sound( 1135 fps) Starting below the speed of sound gives the pellets the advantage of not having to come down through the transonic zone, where air turbulence buffets them around quite a lot. That allows black powder loads to give reasonable patterns out of cylinder bore barrels at 25-30 yards. Black powder barrels can be " jug " choked, to let you have your 40-45 yard gun again, but you are not going to get the same high velocities using BP as you did with your smokeless powder charges. Its when people try to get that same velocity that recoil levels rise precipitously, and they get hurt.

The secret to killing birds at the 30 yard range, or further, assuming a choked barrel, is to use larger size shot than you would normally expect to use for the same game if you hunted with Smokeless Powder modern shells. If you hunt dove using #8 or #9 shot with your modern gun, consider using #7 1/2 or even #6 shot with your BP shotgun. If you kill pheasants and grouse with #6 shot, use #5 shot in your BP loads. Retained pellet energy is what kills birds at any distance, and the larger shot carry energy better, no matter how fast they leave the muzzle.

Oh, and even if you use Smokeless Powder, all that velocity that causes the slap to the shoulder is lost in the first 20 yards, according to Lyman's Shotshell Reloading manual. You don't need that extra velocity out to 20 yards to stop anything, because your patterns are going to be so dense at that short range. So, you may even learn to back down those 20 ga. loads you now use in your modern gun.

Yes, you have to pick your shots, and pass on longer shots, but you probably don't have a huge percentage of kills on birds out at 40 and more yards, anyway, if you honestly consider all the shots you have taken at birds at that range. Most of us don't, either.