Tower lock

[Tanker]

I was at a event today that was all pre 1840 stuff. I bought a few items for my muzzleloader from a vendor. He had on the table a few locks and parts. The one lock had tower stamped on it so I know what it's supposed to be. Is there any way to tell if it is real or more modern copy? It looked old but in good shape but that doesn't really mean that it wasn't made to look old. I may go again tomorrow to do a closer inspection of it. I don't remember the price he had on it so I'm not sure my budget will support it.

 

[Scota@4570]

Cast in engraving, mold parting lines, cast springs, sear spring bent from clock spring..... Others will chime in.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Does it have a stamp on it just below the pan near the frizzen spring that is a crown over an arrow pointed toward the back?

dave

 

[Tanker]

Hi,
Does it have a stamp on it just below the pan near the frizzen spring that is a crown over an arrow pointed toward the back?

dave

Tower looked stamped behind the hammer. This is similar to what it looks like. I don't remember the crown though on the one on the table. I wasnt looking for a lock so when I got home I realized I may have found something good.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
That is a late year (1809) India pattern musket lock. It is essentially from the last pattern Brown Bess issued to British troops. The little stamp of the crown over the broad arrow under the pan indicates it was issued by the British government. That might be an indication your lock was authentic.

dave

 

[Tanker]

Hi,
That is a late year (1809) India pattern musket lock. It is essentially from the last pattern Brown Bess issued to British troops. The little stamp of the crown over the broad arrow under the pan indicates it was issued by the British government. That might be an indication your lock was authentic.

dave

Is it worth purchasing if completely functional and what price is to much to pay.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Well Tanker it is worth purchasing depending on your objectives. If you just want to own an authentic lock it might be worth it. Probably $400-450 might be a suitable price but I really need to see it to tell if it is authentic. There are reproductions and they would be a lot less. If you want it to make a Brown Bess copy then you need to consider what kind of pattern or time period. It would not be appropriate on any Rev War or American colonial period musket. It is appropriate for a late Napoleonic war or War of 1812 British musket.

dave

 

[Tanker]

Hi,
Well Tanker it is worth purchasing depending on your objectives. If you just want to own an authentic lock it might be worth it. Probably $400-450 might be a suitable price but I really need to see it to tell if it is authentic. There are reproductions and they would be a lot less. If you want it to make a Brown Bess copy then you need to consider what kind of pattern or time period. It would not be appropriate on any Rev War or American colonial period musket. It is appropriate for a late Napoleonic war or War of 1812 British musket.

dave

Makes sense, I appreciate the info. I personally am not into the brown bess rifles at this time. With that being said if I get parts at a decent price then building one looks more appealing. I will go back down tomorrow and inspect it some more if I consider it. I will reach out with some pictures. I picked up some furniture for my current build today that was nice. I'm doing a all steel hawkens type ML. Not really a period piece but a hunting/fun piece. I got nice wroth iron trigger guard that is hand made for 10.00.

 

[Scota@4570]

Dave or ??

Which marks were engraved vs stamped?

IF stamped did they stone or file the stamped lettering after to eliminate the parts that sticks up around the letters?

 

[dave_person]

Hi Scot,
By the 1800s I believe all marks would be stamped giving the crown in particular a simple appearance. Any metal pushed up by the stamp was likely worn away long ago. At this point the muskets were no longer assembled by British ordnance from contractor parts but made complete by a consortium of Birmingham gun makers. Quality control inspection was far less as well.

dave

 

[Allenby]

Tanker, what show were you at that limits itself to pre 1840? Sounds like a cool event. Thanks, andy

 

[Tanker]

I say 1840s and I am probably right. I don't think it's a hard fast rule but I will tell you besides the food truck and the portable John's. Everything was 1700s early 1800. Here is the link for it. Fort Loudoun Market Fair. Or Google fort loudon market fair.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Here's three locks two genuine and one repro Indian Geneine locks are hitting £240 on eBay uk you can see they are hand made ..both of mine have a rampant lion... The Indian one is right crappy and I used epoxy to hold it together. A new repro lock is around $150 Expect to pay up to $400 for a good genuine one.....I mean a good few million bess locks were made. The swan necks are before 1810 than the stronger Indian pattern was between 1812 -1820. Both of mine spark realy well but you need a good Flint. The Indian one is manure I think they are fab locks to have on a gun rifled or not......some have the makers initials stamped inside.......it should have the feel of an antique , not a modern bit of manure often with crude engraving typically Indian. 1972 lock I got for £17 is on a rifle ,has a piece of steel hot welded to the frizen face, either from new or repair. So go and grab that lock before re somebody else does .......let us all know

 

[Eric Krewson]

IMA is real proud of their original locks;

https://www.ima-usa.com/collections...lintlock-detached-lock-nepalese-ghurka-marked

 

[Rudyard]

The lock in a rude stock is a rough but seemingly genuine Baker's Series East India Company lock post 1818. There are three sizes viz Pistol, Carbine, & Musket .Of the second one .of Bakers series its a bit rough but fair & seems right the other lock isn't clear enough to say if its Italian it will say so inside the plate it looks a decent lock choose where its made. I was looking for a carbine size E I Coy Bakers series lock . Non will suit any US rifle .only the rare 1820 /27 Cavalry Carbine had the pistol size lock . Rudyard

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I should have made it more clear the Indian lock above is a modern reproduction one off an Indian made blunderbuss..... perhaps 40 plus years old.....I can only comment what I have seen and bought.....Birmingham England produced probably millions of rifles and locks, over this period of time....see Birmingham gun quater, I am only interested in British made locks.....

I just looked at the Nepalise lock and it's like my Indian repro one, for example the hammer is held on with a screw, on the genuine English ones the hammer is held in place with a special nut......as such I thought for the condition etc I thought the Nepalese was grossly overpriced. It's just not a British made lock.....I would not want one, I think , if desparate I would buy from L&R locks as they are so well made, it's buyers choice.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I must amend my thoughts I manage to blow the Nepalies lock up on my iPad and it looks better than a rusty set of castings and with exchange rates I guess it's what I paid for my last a bit corroded lock £220 but it's got a rampant lion, and I ask myself the many east India locks for export were made to a lower standard....it takes months of patience trying to find a genuine lock, hence I have bought from L&R ........I did not choose wisely A mint London hand made bless lock on eBay uk had a starting bid of £240 , I should have bid on it, as it finaly sold for £242 But I could not afford to by two locks on my oap pension being 78 Unfortunately I could not work the other 7 views of the Nepalise lock.......I hope you get back to the fair and nail this bless lock for a good price , we look forward to your success with photos Regards Gordon uk

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I manage to dig up one of the best locks I have seen, I did not choose wisely I should have bid on it, but when I offered the guy £240 cash he said he wanted more and would let it run on eBay. Most of the locks I see are the 1812-1820 stronger pattern east India company.....the swan necks are earlier and seem prone to breaking I guess in favour of the above Nepalise locks is they are pre 1800 and swan neck.......the locks are heavily made and will take quite a bit of filing and sanding to bring them to great condition, I guess you might get a better quality lock if you have a certificate with it.......I have mellowed to the Nepalise locks as its around £240 but I would like to pick out the one I want, and I would grind off the nepaleses markings Best advice is Fairs and eBay USA and avoid paying premium prices to dealers. Depends how desperate you are for a lock. If in doubt do as I do and buy from L&R. I have even received free replacement Sears from them.....extraordinary good company. Enjoy Gordon uk
,

 

[Tanker]

Here is a picture of the lock. The guy is asking 125.00. I have decided I'm going to pass on it.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
It looks to me to be a repro lock by Miroku.

dave