I have had a Chambers left handed Lancaster kit for a couple years now. Swamped 45 barrel. Been reading the 3 books that I have as well as watching the Chambers DVD. Been working on some odds and ends gun projects this winter and really enjoying it though nothing of the scale of building this kit. High time that I get off my butt and get started on this.....though I will admit its a bit intimidating! Well that's a understatement....it actually quite intimidating! I seem to get a bit of conflicting information. This is a partially inlet stock. I have to do the final fitting. One place I read says to inlet the tang and barrel first and the lock after that. Another finish the lock inlet first and then the breech tang and barrel. I am inclined to finish the lock inlet first and if I need to do so can fudge a bit on finishing the inletting for breech and barrel for correct alignment. Is this a correct assumption on my part? Thanks!
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Time to get started!
- Thread starter mahd776
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Hi,
Is the barrel already drilled for a vent hole? If not, I suggest get the barrel and tang seated first and then fuss with the lock. Then drill the hole where it needs to be.
dave
Is the barrel already drilled for a vent hole? If not, I suggest get the barrel and tang seated first and then fuss with the lock. Then drill the hole where it needs to be.
dave
I'm working on a Chambers pistol kit at this time. The lock inlet was nearly complete. There was virtually no room to be able to play with the position of the lock plate unless I would have wanted to start filling in material on the inlet that had already been removed. My lock placement was pretty well set by the existing inlet. So I finished setting the lock plate down very close to where it needed to be. Then I marked the barrel 5/32" forward of the breech plug face (I have a 1/4" vent to install...later)then inlet the barrel so that mark was at the center of my pan. Then I finished the little bit of inletting on the lock plate needed to be sure it was tight to the barrel.
I'd get the lock 80% inletted {it's probably 80% as you rec'd it}, scribe a vertical line for the TH liner on the bbl and inlet the breech end so the vertical line is centered w/ the pan of the lock. This work is done w/o the tang attached.
Bend the tang to the upper wrist profile and screw in the tang and inlet it. I then install the bbl lugs and pin them. Seeing the forestock is already rough shaped, care should be taken when drilling the bbl lug holes so the drill doesn't "skate" downhill. Either chisel a small flat { if a forestock molding is cut, the flat will disappear} for the center punch or a large enough center punch so that the drill fits inside of it. I do the drilling in a drill press.
You've chosen a quality parts set so enjoy the work, but don't under estimate the time to complete.....and study the "how to" books....Good luck.....Fred
Bend the tang to the upper wrist profile and screw in the tang and inlet it. I then install the bbl lugs and pin them. Seeing the forestock is already rough shaped, care should be taken when drilling the bbl lug holes so the drill doesn't "skate" downhill. Either chisel a small flat { if a forestock molding is cut, the flat will disappear} for the center punch or a large enough center punch so that the drill fits inside of it. I do the drilling in a drill press.
You've chosen a quality parts set so enjoy the work, but don't under estimate the time to complete.....and study the "how to" books....Good luck.....Fred
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since this is a swamped barrel, you're pretty much stuck with the location of the barrel/tang combination without trying to tinker with the curve in the stock into which the swamped barrel fits.
it is, what it is.
therefore, the location of the barrel pretty much 'drives the train' as to the location of the lock. hopefully, the whole deal has been done properly, and the lock will be in such a position that the touch hole will be about 3/16 to 1/4 forward of the face of the breech. to check this, i would assemble the barrel and breech and do the final inlet of them as one unit. mark the breech face by dropping the ramrod down the barrel and making a pencil mark at the muzzle, then put the rod next to the barrel and see where the end goes. the end of the rod will be the beginning of the breech face, of course. then you know where you need the touch hole to go.
you want the touch hole to be centered in the pan, and ever so slightly above the top edge of the pan. if this doesn't line up, two things will happen: it will look funny (and therefore bug the #$*@ out of you whenever you see it) and (more important) it will not work as well. the further away from the "sunset position" it is, the worse it will look, and the less likely you are to get good performance from your lock.
you can, of course, cut a groove into the breech face, so that the flash from the touch hole can ignite your powder. i understand that this has been done on some original rifles. don't get too carried away, and try to keep the cut as smooth as possible. be aware, of course, the if you start to really cut back on the breech, you are weakening the whole system: use good common sense.
i have made rifles from both pre- carved stocks and from blanks. the problems with a precarve (as outlined above) is why i prefer to do a blank, but that doesn't mean that precarves are shoddy or substandard in any way: they can save a boatload of time and frustration of done correctly. I wouldn't hesitate, for instance, to use a Pecatonica pre- carve: their geometry is spot on. depends on how much of the woodwork you want to do yourself.
hope this helps
good luck with your project - go slow, 'sneak up on it' (it's a journey, not a race) and when you're all done
Make Good Smoke!
it is, what it is.
therefore, the location of the barrel pretty much 'drives the train' as to the location of the lock. hopefully, the whole deal has been done properly, and the lock will be in such a position that the touch hole will be about 3/16 to 1/4 forward of the face of the breech. to check this, i would assemble the barrel and breech and do the final inlet of them as one unit. mark the breech face by dropping the ramrod down the barrel and making a pencil mark at the muzzle, then put the rod next to the barrel and see where the end goes. the end of the rod will be the beginning of the breech face, of course. then you know where you need the touch hole to go.
you want the touch hole to be centered in the pan, and ever so slightly above the top edge of the pan. if this doesn't line up, two things will happen: it will look funny (and therefore bug the #$*@ out of you whenever you see it) and (more important) it will not work as well. the further away from the "sunset position" it is, the worse it will look, and the less likely you are to get good performance from your lock.
you can, of course, cut a groove into the breech face, so that the flash from the touch hole can ignite your powder. i understand that this has been done on some original rifles. don't get too carried away, and try to keep the cut as smooth as possible. be aware, of course, the if you start to really cut back on the breech, you are weakening the whole system: use good common sense.
i have made rifles from both pre- carved stocks and from blanks. the problems with a precarve (as outlined above) is why i prefer to do a blank, but that doesn't mean that precarves are shoddy or substandard in any way: they can save a boatload of time and frustration of done correctly. I wouldn't hesitate, for instance, to use a Pecatonica pre- carve: their geometry is spot on. depends on how much of the woodwork you want to do yourself.
hope this helps
good luck with your project - go slow, 'sneak up on it' (it's a journey, not a race) and when you're all done
Make Good Smoke!
I've done 3 Chambers early Lancaster parts sets and seeing the lock inlet is nearly finished, it can't be moved.....so the bbl has to be moved back so the TH vertical line centers w/ the lock pan. No other way to do it w/ a precarve that has the lock already inletted or close to it.....Fred
MSW said:
On these kits, you're generally only moving the barrel back an 1/8 to maybe 1/4" and the swamped barrel inlet is so tight, or even where the barrel won't quite fit in yet, there's more room to play with the barrel position by a little bit than the lock, which is almost a snap-in.
Mike
Not drilled yet. Have the White Lightening to install.
The general rule of thumb with a "kit" gun is,
If the mortise for the lockplate has been roughed in to the point that it needs only a little trimming to get the lockplate in, the lock is the first thing to install.
Then, the barrel is positioned in the stock so that the center of the side barrel flat lines up with the top of the pan (with the frizzen open) and the fore/aft position places the face of the breech plug (inside the barrel) 5/32 aft of the center of the pan (if a vent liner with 1/4" threads is being used).
If there is no mortise for the lockplate, the barrel and breech plug is inlayed into the stock first.
Then, the lock is located relative to the center of the side barrel flat with the center of the pan 5/32" (again for a 1/4" vent liner) forward of the breech plug face.
When all is said and done, the center of the vent can be ahead or behind the center of the pan but it should never be so close to the breech plug face that tapping and threading the vent hole will interfere with the face of the breech plug.
If the mortise for the lockplate has been roughed in to the point that it needs only a little trimming to get the lockplate in, the lock is the first thing to install.
Then, the barrel is positioned in the stock so that the center of the side barrel flat lines up with the top of the pan (with the frizzen open) and the fore/aft position places the face of the breech plug (inside the barrel) 5/32 aft of the center of the pan (if a vent liner with 1/4" threads is being used).
If there is no mortise for the lockplate, the barrel and breech plug is inlayed into the stock first.
Then, the lock is located relative to the center of the side barrel flat with the center of the pan 5/32" (again for a 1/4" vent liner) forward of the breech plug face.
When all is said and done, the center of the vent can be ahead or behind the center of the pan but it should never be so close to the breech plug face that tapping and threading the vent hole will interfere with the face of the breech plug.
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Dane said:
yes ... my bad ... you can move a swamped barrel a bit in a precarve ... probably as much as a quarter inch maybe three eights ... i have seen 'woopsies' much bigger than that, as well as precarves where the lock inlet assumed a 1 inch across the flats and a 13/16 barrel was inlet (this required some very sneaky soldering).
By the way, if you have a White Lightnin' liner (which i think is a good thing) remember to add a bit for the diameter of the cone inside the barrel. (and don't forget to cut off the little tab and file the whole thing smooth before you finish ... and please don't ask how close i came to making this really dumb move...)
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The gunsmith of grenville county explains this pretty well.
His take on it is to inlet the breech and barrel, but keep in mind where the lock is going to fit in the picture.
He goes into fine detail whats involved with parts placement. As he call is it knowns.
I'm a new builder, but the kit I built was pretty tricky with a large lock on a small barrel.
Pictures would be helpful. How deep is the barrel into the stock. It should be half flat. or eaxactly 50% of the depth.
Besides the lock to barrel placement. You have to keep in mind where the ramrod hole is, Where your trigger should ideally be.
You should also know exactly how deep your breech threads go. You do not want the sealing surface cut into.
White lightning liners come in thread sizes 1/4, 5/16, and 3/8ths.
Take it easy with the grenville book. There is a lot of detail in that book.
His take on it is to inlet the breech and barrel, but keep in mind where the lock is going to fit in the picture.
He goes into fine detail whats involved with parts placement. As he call is it knowns.
I'm a new builder, but the kit I built was pretty tricky with a large lock on a small barrel.
Pictures would be helpful. How deep is the barrel into the stock. It should be half flat. or eaxactly 50% of the depth.
Besides the lock to barrel placement. You have to keep in mind where the ramrod hole is, Where your trigger should ideally be.
You should also know exactly how deep your breech threads go. You do not want the sealing surface cut into.
White lightning liners come in thread sizes 1/4, 5/16, and 3/8ths.
Take it easy with the grenville book. There is a lot of detail in that book.
