The pros and cons of different flint lock locks

[RHensley]

I've built several rifles(16) and have almost always used the siler lock. I mostly built percussion rifles except for 6 which was flint. The 3 flint I have now are with the Siler lock. My question is what other people are using . The availability of them and what if any trouble anyone has had with them. I'm thing of another build and haven't decided on the lock yet. It will be either a York or J P Beck school. The last one was the J P Beck stile kind of. I try to build a half way pretty hunting gun. No patch box but several inlays .

 

[Cruzatte]

Well.....let's see here....first was a Dixie Gun Works Tennessee Mountain Rifle. I thought it had a very decent lock. Maybe not the best in the west, but reliable. I learned a lot shooting that rifle.

Second was an L&R late English lock a friend installed on a rifle he built. That was a good lock

Third was a Caywood lock on my Wilson fusil. I think that one is a very good lock. It was my first attempt at building. Turned out pretty good. Still shoot it often. I wouldn't hesitate to build another fusil around a Caywood lock.

Fourth was a modified Siler on a 54 caliber custom rifle I still shoot often. Best money I ever spent.

Fifth is a Track of the Wolf TVLLE lock which is sitting on my work bench awaiting installation on a French fusil. I expect that to be a very good lock, as well.

 

[RHensley]

One of the percussion rifles was a half stock and I used a L & R hawken stile lock. It works good even though I haven't used it in years. The first rifle was a missed matched rifle . I used a TC percussion lock with Douglas barrel on a long rifle. Kind of ugly but shoots good. Mostly Green Mountain barrels except for the last on which was a colerain. I believe the next will be with a Rice either 58 or 62 . Haven't decided yet. I guess I'll decide when I decide on the lock. The last one was a single trigger. That worked out pretty good. 3 lb pull. Works good hunting. I'll look at those locks and read up on them.

 

[plmeek]

I'm thing of another build and haven't decided on the lock yet. It will be either a York or J P Beck school.

Your choice of school would suggest a Germanic lock, but post-1800, English import locks were so abundant that they can show up on rifles of the York and Lebanon schools.

Another Siler lock would still be a good choice. It's pro is that it has good geometry and works, throwing lots of sparks and making the gun go boom. Its cons are cosmetic--minor appearances of the lock plate, cock, frizzen, and frizzen spring.

In the past, Bud Siler sold only cast parts and not assembled locks. That meant that someone else assembled the lock. That situation has changed. Jim Chambers bought the Siler business and his workers assemble Siler locks for him. Other companies such as RE Davis used to buy castings from Chambers and assemble Siler locks, but they no longer do that. Chambers still sells lock kits, so anybody can still assemble a Siler lock if they want to.

Chambers offers a Deluxe Siler that has some redesigned parts that improve function and appearance. These include a redesigned cock, frizzen spring, and tumbler.

Chambers also offers a Golden Age Flintlock that has a different plate than the Siler, but uses the same cock, frizzen spring, and tumbler that's on the Deluxe Siler.

L&R offers the early (1750-1770) Classic Flintlock. This style lock is suitable for Colonial period rifles.

L&R also offers a Jacob Dickert Lock that is suitable for a 1760-1800 period rifle.

RE Davis sells M&G Classic Flintlocks that would work for your build. As I said before, they no longer assemble Siler locks.

The above are all Germanic style locks.

If you wanted to go with an English style lock, your best bet would be a Chambers Late Ketland Flintlock. It's an excellent performing lock and fits the 1800 +/- period well.

You could go with an L&R Late English Flintlock or the RE Davis Late English Flintlock, but in my opinion, these locks are best suited for a later period rifle than you described.

You'll likely get all kinds of opinions and testimonials about quality and problems with some of these locks. Chambers seems to be the most highly respected and praised locks today. So much so that he has raised his prices well above those of L&R and RE Davis. Whatever the market will bear. L&R has had a long history of changing owners since it first started up in the 1970s, and some of those owners seemed to let quality controls slip. The present owners seem to be doing better. RE Davis makes good locks. The internals may not be finished as well as most Chambers locks, but they are functional and reliable.

For comparison, the 2018 flintlock prices for the three makers I mentioned are:

Chambers $195
L&R $170
RE Davis $160
​

Prices for 2019 are likely to be higher.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

If available in the style desired, or that it could be modified to, a Caywood lock would be my preferred choice.

 

[RHensley]

Your choice of school would suggest a Germanic lock, but post-1800, English import locks were so abundant that they can show up on rifles of the York and Lebanon schools.

Another Siler lock would still be a good choice. It's pro is that it has good geometry and works, throwing lots of sparks and making the gun go boom. Its cons are cosmetic--minor appearances of the lock plate, cock, frizzen, and frizzen spring.

In the past, Bud Siler sold only cast parts and not assembled locks. That meant that someone else assembled the lock. That situation has changed. Jim Chambers bought the Siler business and his workers assemble Siler locks for him. Other companies such as RE Davis used to buy castings from Chambers and assemble Siler locks, but they no longer do that. Chambers still sells lock kits, so anybody can still assemble a Siler lock if they want to.

Chambers offers a Deluxe Siler that has some redesigned parts that improve function and appearance. These include a redesigned cock, frizzen spring, and tumbler.

Chambers also offers a Golden Age Flintlock that has a different plate than the Siler, but uses the same cock, frizzen spring, and tumbler that's on the Deluxe Siler.

L&R offers the early (1750-1770) Classic Flintlock. This style lock is suitable for Colonial period rifles.

L&R also offers a Jacob Dickert Lock that is suitable for a 1760-1800 period rifle.

RE Davis sells M&G Classic Flintlocks that would work for your build. As I said before, they no longer assemble Siler locks.

The above are all Germanic style locks.

If you wanted to go with an English style lock, your best bet would be a Chambers Late Ketland Flintlock. It's an excellent performing lock and fits the 1800 +/- period well.

You could go with an L&R Late English Flintlock or the RE Davis Late English Flintlock, but in my opinion, these locks are best suited for a later period rifle than you described.

You'll likely get all kinds of opinions and testimonials about quality and problems with some of these locks. Chambers seems to be the most highly respected and praised locks today. So much so that he has raised his prices well above those of L&R and RE Davis. Whatever the market will bear. L&R has had a long history of changing owners since it first started up in the 1970s, and some of those owners seemed to let quality controls slip. The present owners seem to be doing better. RE Davis makes good locks. The internals may not be finished as well as most Chambers locks, but they are functional and reliable.

For comparison, the 2018 flintlock prices for the three makers I mentioned are:

Chambers $195
L&R $170
RE Davis $160
​

Prices for 2019 are likely to be higher.

Thanks I will look at all these. I remembered the L & R locks some of the others I didn't. As far as pricing the little difference in the price dosen't really matter all that much as long as it's a good lock. I believe you get what you pay for. again thanks

 

[EC121]

There are some locks being developed using CNC machining on some of the parts, but who knows when they will hit the market. They will cost more than castings for sure.

 

[Captjoel]

Another lock offered by Jim Chambers is the Dale Johnson lock. It is Germanic style utilizing deluxe Siler innards with a slightly curved lockplate underbelly. A very fine and great sparking lock. I used one on my last jaeger rifle build and am very happy with it.

 

[smo]

Pete Allen makes a great lock as well.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Silers are pretty good locks and certainly suitable for many LRs. However, they benefit greatly from tuning and balancing the springs. The deluxe Silers are an improvement. The rest of the stable of locks from Chambers are good with their late Ketland, early Ketland, and round-faced locks being outstanding. I rarely use any other mass producers locks if I can avoid it. I currently am using a late flint lock from Davis on a late flint era English rifle. It will work fine but needs work such as the springs reshaped and balanced and a heavy hardened sole added to the frizzen face to add mass, which along with a much strengthened mainspring will give the short-throw lock performance a bit more like the original English locks it is based on. I avoid L&R locks unless I absolutely have to use one because of the gun style and I have no other choices. They require hours of fitting and tuning to meet my standards of performance and I usually make new mainsprings for them. Chris Laubach should be marketing his early Germanic lock soon. This lock will be CNC machined and the one he showed me at Dixon's was beautiful. It should require no tuning or polishing. Stan Hollenbaugh makes good locks suitable for LRs and if you can find an L&R completely rebuilt by Bob Roller, you will have something really good.

dave

 

[Rifleman1776]

Pete Allen makes a great lock as well.

Yes, he does/did. My long time favorite longrifle gave highly reliable performance for 40+ years until my health issues intervened. Not the fault of the lock or Pete. Mine has a very different external appearance. Most notably in the frizzen spring and tail.

 

[RHensley]

Hi,
Silers are pretty good locks and certainly suitable for many LRs. However, they benefit greatly from tuning and balancing the springs. The deluxe Silers are an improvement. The rest of the stable of locks from Chambers are good with their late Ketland, early Ketland, and round-faced locks being outstanding. I rarely use any other mass producers locks if I can avoid it. I currently am using a late flint lock from Davis on a late flint era English rifle. It will work fine but needs work such as the springs reshaped and balanced and a heavy hardened sole added to the frizzen face to add mass, which along with a much strengthened mainspring will give the short-throw lock performance a bit more like the original English locks it is based on. I avoid L&R locks unless I absolutely have to use one because of the gun style and I have no other choices. They require hours of fitting and tuning to meet my standards of performance and I usually make new mainsprings for them. Chris Laubach should be marketing his early Germanic lock soon. This lock will be CNC machined and the one he showed me at Dixon's was beautiful. It should require no tuning or polishing. Stan Hollenbaugh makes good locks suitable for LRs and if you can find an L&R completely rebuilt by Bob Roller, you will have something really good.

dave

I just looked on the computer and found that Mr. Chambers is only 6 hours away and I think as soon as I get over the little operation I'm looking at I will ride there and take a look see if not sooner. I may be taking the better half to the beech this spring and stop on the way.