Help with identifying a lock.

[LonestarShootR]

Brand new to black powder shooting and recently bought a small group of rifles from a friend. One is a .40 cal flintlock with J Garner engraved on top in front of the breech. That’s all I have found. I am wanting to learn more about this gun and searched here and the web some. I found a phone number and called it and the guy that answered the phone said he was Jack Garner. I talked with him about getting some steel hardware for the rifle and sent pictures to show him what I have but that’s been weeks ago and I haven’t heard back from him. He sounds as he is up in age. I don’t wont to bother the man.
Today while cleaning the gun up after shooting it and took the lock out and the flash hole thing due to breaking the rid tip off with a cleaning jig.
My question is there anyone that can identify this lock on this piece? Thinking it was made in the early 70’s. I have dry fired it multiple times and have shot probably 15 shots through it and it’s fired every time. I haven’t touched the flint that is in it. I doubt that this thing has been shot any in past years.

On the lock it’s self I can only find something that looks like a bird engraved but I could be wrong.
It’s approximately 4 3/4” long and 7/8” wide. Have not found anything else on it.
Researching I came up with it possibly being a small Siler lock?
Any help with this would be appreciated. Just trying to learn more about what they are made from and how they work. I do have an interest in building one myself.

 

[Phil Coffins]

The thing that you think might be a bird is just the wrinkles from the steel going into the mold, the lock parts are cast and the lock was left as cast as is evident by the parting lines. The rough surfaces also show that it wasn’t filed or polished. That is commonly seen on locks to this day. The rifle looks to be nice one over all.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@LonestarShootR might want to contact Matt Avance of TVM, the company that is continuing the building of traditional muzzleloading rifles started by Jack Garner. You lock is most likely a small Siler built by Jack Garner's team. Matt Avance will most likely have the steel hardware to make the changes. You do have a nice rifle. Plan on enjoying the new experience.

 

[Secesh]

Looks like a Siler.

 

[54ball]

Mr. Garner still builds rifles. Your rifle is probably a lot newer than the 1970s. It could be really recent.

How long has your friend had it?

What “hardware” do you need?

Yes, that is a Small Siler.

 

[wiscoaster]

I have this urge to file and polish that lock so it's just as pretty as the stock.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

If you wanted an iron mounted gun you should have bought one.

 

[LonestarShootR]

Thanks for the replies.


@54ball, my buddies family lives in Tennessee. That's where he got them from. The other 3 guns are from 1970's and are percussions so I figured the flint was from the same period.

Looking to change the butt plate, patchbox, trigger guard, thimbles and nose cap to steel as I prefer the look over brass.

@Comfortably_Numb
I bought this off a friend sight unseen. This flintlock and 3 percussion muzzle loaders for $500
It was a package deal, all or nothing. That's about $125 average for each one. Don't figure it was a bad deal. Hopefully this rifle was worth that. I can certainly live with the brass furniture but was just inquiring about swapping out to iron.

 

[EC121]

Put some brass black on the metal and polish the lock. Then shoot it.

 

[French Colonial]

I don't want to pretend to speak for Mr. Numb but what I think he is trying to say in his own unique way is that in most cases (Mr. Kibler's products being one exception) lots of these parts are not interchangeable without more hand fitting than some people are capable of and most quality gunsmiths will not touch a project like this because there are to many pitfalls.

Best to enjoy it as it is or sell it and buy an iron mounted gun.

 

[Flintleather]

Shoot it and rub the brass with a dirty cleaning patch with lots of fouling on it. The brass will look great in no time!

 

[Winterhawk]

Contact Mr. Garner himself, tell him what you have and go from there. Here's the website:
https://tennesseevalleymanufacturing.com/

 

[54ball]

Thanks for the replies.


@54ball, my buddies family lives in Tennessee. That's where he got them from. The other 3 guns are from 1970's and are percussions so I figured the flint was from the same period.

Looking to change the butt plate, patchbox, trigger guard, thimbles and nose cap to steel as I prefer the look over brass.

@Comfortably_Numb
I bought this off a friend sight unseen. This flintlock and 3 percussion muzzle loaders for $500
It was a package deal, all or nothing. That's about $125 average for each one. Don't figure it was a bad deal. Hopefully this rifle was worth that. I can certainly live with the brass furniture but was just inquiring about swapping out to iron.

Those parts are filed and fitted.
It’s really easier to build a new rifle than to replace hardware.
Sometimes you might get lucky but.....
It would be a very tedious endeavor with possibly disappointing results.
Also.....
A Siler is not really a good lock for a Southern iron mounted rifle.

 

[brushblind]

That rifle would cost over 2 grand now. Not sure why the extra hole in the lock (filled with the screw) but not a big deal.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thanks for the replies.

@54ball, my buddies family lives in Tennessee. That's where he got them from. The other 3 guns are from 1970's and are percussions so I figured the flint was from the same period.

Looking to change the butt plate, patchbox, trigger guard, thimbles and nose cap to steel as I prefer the look over brass.

If your buddy bought the rifles from a company in Tennessee, then it is likely to have been Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading. Jack Gerner sold the company to Matt Avance about 30 years ago. Look on their site to see if your rifle looks like one of the current offerings. They do have kits and likely parts. It's worth the call otherwise matching castings from a catalog to what you have is likely to be more trouble than getting used to brass furniture.

https://www.tvmnatchez.com/

 

[EC121]

That rifle would cost over 2 grand now. Not sure why the extra hole in the lock (filled with the screw) but not a big deal.

The screw isn't a plug. It is the screw that holds the pan and bolster on the lockplate. They are separate on a Siler. It s does look a little long. That could be filed down when the lock is polished. Jack didn't mess with polishing. He grabbed a lock and inlet it, and out the door it went.

 

[Rudyard]

@LonestarShootR might want to contact Matt Avance of TVM, the company that is continuing the building of traditional muzzleloading rifles started by Jack Garner. You lock is most likely a small Siler built by Jack Garner's team. Matt Avance will most likely have the steel hardware to make the changes. You do have a nice rifle. Plan on enjoying the new experience.

Its just Mack Vance no A in there Good to hear he's still active His lock he sold to L&R but no doubt he developed others Good on them both not seen either in years Lock is Small Siler odd he didn't clean it up .more .
Rudyard

 

[RB POWELL]

Brand new to black powder shooting and recently bought a small group of rifles from a friend. One is a .40 cal flintlock with J Garner engraved on top in front of the breech. That’s all I have found. I am wanting to learn more about this gun and searched here and the web some. I found a phone number and called it and the guy that answered the phone said he was Jack Garner. I talked with him about getting some steel hardware for the rifle and sent pictures to show him what I have but that’s been weeks ago and I haven’t heard back from him. He sounds as he is up in age. I don’t wont to bother the man.
Today while cleaning the gun up after shooting it and took the lock out and the flash hole thing due to breaking the rid tip off with a cleaning jig.
My question is there anyone that can identify this lock on this piece? Thinking it was made in the early 70’s. I have dry fired it multiple times and have shot probably 15 shots through it and it’s fired every time. I haven’t touched the flint that is in it. I doubt that this thing has been shot any in past years.

On the lock it’s self I can only find something that looks like a bird engraved but I could be wrong.
It’s approximately 4 3/4” long and 7/8” wide. Have not found anything else on it.
Researching I came up with it possibly being a small Siler lock?
Any help with this would be appreciated. Just trying to learn more about what they are made from and how they work. I do have an interest in building one myself.View attachment 287719View attachment 287720View attachment 287721

Brand new to black powder shooting and recently bought a small group of rifles from a friend. One is a .40 cal flintlock with J Garner engraved on top in front of the breech. That’s all I have found. I am wanting to learn more about this gun and searched here and the web some. I found a phone number and called it and the guy that answered the phone said he was Jack Garner. I talked with him about getting some steel hardware for the rifle and sent pictures to show him what I have but that’s been weeks ago and I haven’t heard back from him. He sounds as he is up in age. I don’t wont to bother the man.
Today while cleaning the gun up after shooting it and took the lock out and the flash hole thing due to breaking the rid tip off with a cleaning jig.
My question is there anyone that can identify this lock on this piece? Thinking it was made in the early 70’s. I have dry fired it multiple times and have shot probably 15 shots through it and it’s fired every time. I haven’t touched the flint that is in it. I doubt that this thing has been shot any in past years.

On the lock it’s self I can only find something that looks like a bird engraved but I could be wrong.
It’s approximately 4 3/4” long and 7/8” wide. Have not found anything else on it.
Researching I came up with it possibly being a small Siler lock?
Any help with this would be appreciated. Just trying to learn more about what they are made from and how they work. I do have an interest in building one myself.View attachment 287719View attachment 287720

Brand new to black powder shooting and recently bought a small group of rifles from a friend. One is a .40 cal flintlock with J Garner engraved on top in front of the breech. That’s all I have found. I am wanting to learn more about this gun and searched here and the web some. I found a phone number and called it and the guy that answered the phone said he was Jack Garner. I talked with him about getting some steel hardware for the rifle and sent pictures to show him what I have but that’s been weeks ago and I haven’t heard back from him. He sounds as he is up in age. I don’t wont to bother the man.
Today while cleaning the gun up after shooting it and took the lock out and the flash hole thing due to breaking the rid tip off with a cleaning jig.
My question is there anyone that can identify this lock on this piece? Thinking it was made in the early 70’s. I have dry fired it multiple times and have shot probably 15 shots through it and it’s fired every time. I haven’t touched the flint that is in it. I doubt that this thing has been shot any in past years.

On the lock it’s self I can only find something that looks like a bird engraved but I could be wrong.
It’s approximately 4 3/4” long and 7/8” wide. Have not found anything else on it.
Researching I came up with it possibly being a small Siler lock?
Any help with this would be appreciated. Just trying to learn more about what they are made from and how they work. I do have an interest in building one myself.View attachment 287719View attachment 287720View attachment 287721

Personally, I wouldn't change a thing on that rifle.
View attachment 287721

 

[bpd303]

I believe Jack is recuperating from a case of pneumonia, can't find the thread though. Here is a thread about him signing his barrels.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/a-true-jack-garner-build.168946/

 

[LonestarShootR]

I believe Jack is recuperating from a case of pneumonia, can't find the thread though. Here is a thread about him signing his barrels.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/a-true-jack-garner-build.168946/

I called and talked to Jack on Jan 8th and sent him pictures as he requested. Never heard back from him since talking to him. Oh well